Aug. 6, 2025

MSP Owners Group: Culture Over Consolidation (EP 888)

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MSP Owners Group: Culture Over Consolidation (EP 888)

In this candid episode, Paco LeBron and I dig deep on selling his majority stake in ProdigyTeks, stepping up as CEO at MSP Owners Group, and why culture beats dollars when it comes to building lasting IT businesses.

What does it really mean to sell your MSP and stay in the game? On this episode, I chat with Paco LeBron—fresh off selling a majority stake in ProdigyTeks and stepping up as CEO for MSP Owners Group. Paco drops hard-won insights on leadership, the pitfalls of transactional M&A, and why a company’s soul matters more than just financials. If you want to know how the new wave of MSP acquisitions is different, and how to thrive in a changing landscape, this episode is can’t-miss!

We also talk all things TechCon Unplugged, the role of peer community in the MSP world, and what’s next as the industry faces more automation and roll-ups. 

Companies, Products, & Books Mentioned (List with URLs)

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=== Show Information

(0:48 - 1:14)
Hello friends, Uncle Marv here with another episode of the IT Business Podcast brought to you by our friends at ThreatLocker. This is the Wednesday live show, and it's turning into Uncle Marv and Friends Wednesday night live. And I have coming up, joining me, Paco LeBron, and we're going to chat about some things that are going on in his life, some changes.

(1:15 - 1:34)
I accidentally gave him a title that he didn't have, but that is besides the fact. You know him as the gentleman that is CEO of ProdigyTeks. He is the man behind MSP Unplugged, TechCon Unplugged, and now CEO of the MSP Owners Group.

(1:34 - 1:44)
So we will chat about all of those things. But before we do that, let me do my intro here. And of course, say thank you to ThreatLocker.

(1:45 - 1:56)
But I need to clear the air a little bit. I need to apologize to you as listeners and video watchers here. Hello, Tom.

(1:56 - 2:03)
Thank you for coming out. I have been telling everybody that I took the summer off. That part is true.

(2:04 - 2:18)
I took the summer off from going to conferences and traveling and spending some time at home. I have been going hard and fast for almost two years. And I said, you know what?” I need some time for me.

(2:19 - 2:27)
So that part is true. But I also needed some time from some of you. And not all of you.

(2:28 - 2:42)
Most of you, good people, nice friends, polite to my face. I don't know what you say behind my back, except for a couple of you say some pretty crappy things, and I hear it. So I needed a break.

(2:42 - 3:04)
That is probably why you don't see me when I go to conferences hanging out past midnight, because stuff good doesn't happen after midnight. So I had to stop that. So I needed some time to just chill, focus on the business, focus on me, pay attention to the wife, do all of that stuff.

(3:04 - 3:19)
So for those of you that just simply think that I just was tired of hanging out with you, I'm sorry about that. It wasn't that. It wasn't most of you good folks.

(3:20 - 3:37)
But I did need a break. But let me tell you what's been going on. So I told you guys that I've had, because I've been home and because I've been focusing on the business, had some prospect opportunities, had some people call and say, Hey, we've got somebody that we want you to talk to.

(3:37 - 3:57)
This morning, I actually went to the office building of one of my clients. I got a call yesterday from the building manager who said, “Hey, we like what you've done for your client in our office building. We have another space that we're getting ready to rent out.

(3:57 - 4:21)
Can you come and help us with that? And basically what they are wanting to do is they're redesigning the floor space. And turns out it isn't really anything major, but they're splitting a floor from one big office into two smaller offices. And so they want us to relocate all of the network cabling and stuff.

(4:21 - 4:38)
So I mean, that's a nice little deal. Maybe it's going to put me in good graces with the building so that if people move in and they want other IT work done, they'll think of us first. So I thought that was a good thing that the building is recognizing the work that we did.

(4:39 - 4:45)
And I'll be honest, it's not work I did. It's my cable guy. I subbed that part out, but I supervise and make sure it looks nice.

(4:45 - 5:04)
I order all the stuff and things like that. But before I went to that appointment, just to cut to the other side of how things are going, I woke up in a sweat this morning and it was weird. I was remembering a dream or I was having a dream or something to that effect.

(5:04 - 5:14)
And it was weird because I usually, I don't, I mean, I assume I have dreams. I just don't remember the dreams. So I don't put a lot of stock into them.

(5:14 - 5:21)
And I don't really talk to people if you're like, oh, dreams mean this and dreams. So here's what happened this morning. I woke up in a sweat.

(5:21 - 5:44)
I was getting up early to go visit this prospect for the job I just told you about. But what I was doing is thinking about an old client that had parted ways with us. And I won't get into the whole story because I don't want to give too many details because they might be a client again.

(5:44 - 6:18)
I woke up in this cold sweat because I got a call from them at like three 30 on a Friday and they needed me to run over to their office with a van, help them move computers because they had to do such and such for a thing that they had to have up and running Saturday morning. But the thing was, they made the call to me and I'm not their tech, I'm not their guy. They went with somebody else.

(6:19 - 6:26)
And so I was like, why are you calling me? And it was, well, they can't help us. They're not available. Blah, blah, blah.

(6:26 - 6:36)
And I'm like, they are. You left me to go with them for this very reason, because you didn't think I would be available for you. But yet here you are calling me.

(6:36 - 6:58)
And of course, for some reason, I'm available. I get a van, I go over there and help them. So I was just sitting here thinking, what in the world am I thinking about that this is the nightmare that I'm having and I haven't even spoken to this client about whether or not we'll get back together.

(7:00 - 7:12)
But that's a possibility. So that was my morning, folks. And sometimes we always talk about the good side of IT, try to make everything sound so nice and stuff.

(7:13 - 7:18)
But I want to let you know that, listen, I'm not that guy. I'm going to tell you like it is. I had a sweat this morning.

(7:18 - 7:22)
I don't know why. I don't get it. But that's what happened.

(7:23 - 7:44)
Now I can tell you this. It probably started last night, because after an appointment I had last night, I had a prospect call at 7.30 p.m. Even though I stopped work at 5, my phone stops ringing at 5.15, it goes to voicemail. I had somebody meet here.

(7:45 - 7:57)
We had a thing that we do. And so I was done at 7 with that. And for some reason, I allowed my schedule to be open at 7.30 p.m. on a Tuesday night and a prospect call.

(7:58 - 8:17)
And I talked to a nice lady, runs a law firm, and it's not close by. And it's a law firm with about eight active stations. And I started off the conversation with, you know, tell me what it is that you're looking for.

(8:17 - 8:34)
Tell me, you know, what you're unhappy with about IT, and let me see if it's something that I can help with, and we'll see if we're a good fit. And she started to tell me, and without getting into the details of that, I said, okay, well, I can help you with this. I can help you with that.

(8:34 - 9:07)
I don't know that I can help you with this, and I would need to come see your network to help you with some other stuff. And one of the complaints was he had an IT company or person, I don't know which, for 10 years, and somehow that went away. And so for the last two or three months, they've been working with a guy who is doing IT, but it's really a phone guy who just kind of started doing computers on the side and had put in a Synology that was acting as their server.

(9:07 - 9:24)
But yet every day, somebody from the network gets disconnected, and she thought that Synology was crap. And I'm like, Synology's fine. I have Synology, and a lot of my clients, in fact, I have a big, huge law firm of 100 people running off of Synology as their file server.

(9:25 - 9:36)
So I don't think it's the Synology, but I would have to look at it to see if maybe he got the wrong one for you. Maybe he configured it wrong. I don't know, but that's something we'll need to find out.

(9:36 - 9:59)
And so then, of course, the conversation turned to Bunny, what are your rates? I said, I don't really have rates. I have customized pricing based on what you need, because I'm not going to come in with just a package and say, here's my silver package, here's my gold package. I said, I need to assess your network.

(9:59 - 10:25)
That's why I asked you, what is it that you need? And I said, I do have stuff that I do with protection and security and remote access and blah, blah, blah. I said, so my prices on a regular monthly agreement range anywhere from 100 to 150 bucks per person per month, or per machine per month, based on your stuff. I won't know until I see the network.

(10:25 - 10:37)
And she said, well, I think we're done already, because we're paying this guy 340 bucks a month, so your price is going to be out of my ballpark. Boom. Boom, right there, done.

(10:38 - 11:06)
So that may be, I went to sleep. I was OK with the fact that we established early on that amount of our price range. But I needed to let some of you out there know that when we talk about price and everybody says you need to be charging this per client, 200, 300, whatever, my average price really does average about 100 to 150.

(11:07 - 11:23)
And on my very most profitable clients, even though they are profitable to me, they're $91. That's a co-managed situation that I have there. That's here, South Florida.

(11:23 - 11:34)
I'm in Fort Lauderdale. The person I was talking to is South Miami. So for me, that's, sorry for those of you in Miami, but that's third world for me.

(11:34 - 11:46)
South of the glades, those are the types of things that I got to deal with. So $340 for eight computers, you do the math, I'll do the Alfredo. We're not going to be doing business with them.

(11:46 - 11:59)
So that's where we are. But I wanted to bring that up to let you guys know that there are areas in this country where you just can't throw out a number and say, this is it. And expect everybody to be happy.

(12:00 - 12:08)
Yes. Most of you will say, well, those are the clients you don't want anyway. I'm telling you folks down here, that is the majority of clients.

(12:09 - 12:32)
Most people in South Florida are cheap, in my opinion. Yes, Miami is overhyped, overpriced in terms of living, but they're cheap when it comes to paying their service people and providers and stuff like that. So thank you, Leonard, for the boom in the chat.

(12:32 - 12:42)
I appreciate that. Let's move on to happier topics. And it's always a joy to bring on this gentleman here.

(12:42 - 13:05)
I consider him a friend, Paco LeBron, CEO of both the MSP Owners Group and ProdigyTeks. The man, the legend, the myth, what are you looking at? Paco, how are you, man? As I like to say, my friend, better than good, better than most. All right.

(13:05 - 13:39)
All right. So let's just get this out of the way. You're out there, PAX 8, the announcement's made, the one and only is doing this a little by my table, trying to pretend like, do you know? You're smirking off to the side, the announcement's made, and of course, people are like, Mark, is this true? What's going on? What does this mean? Like, I don't know.

(13:39 - 13:49)
Well, is Paco leaving his business? Is he doing... I don't know. Paco and I don't talk. I mean, we're friends, but you live in Chicago, I live in Florida.

(13:49 - 13:59)
We don't talk all the time. We're not pals like you and Dubinsky. So let me get him on the show.

(13:59 - 14:07)
Let me ask and see what's cooking. It's been now, what? It's been almost two months now. So things have probably settled down.

(14:07 - 14:14)
I think it's a good time because I didn't want to hit you right off the bat. There's a lot of stuff that happens in those first few days. Sure.

(14:15 - 14:15)
Sure. Sure. Yeah.

(14:17 - 14:18)
Yeah. It was pretty funny. Right.

(14:18 - 14:44)
So like, you know, this has been something that was in the works for quite a bit, right? You know, this was something we'd had mildly discussed several years ago when Juan was prior to him being over at Super Ops. We flirted with some ideas on trying to see if we can make something happen. You know, fast forward to today.

(14:45 - 15:06)
Yeah. Just, you know, we, so the gist of it essentially for those that are inquiring. So, you know, I did sell a majority portion of the business to MSP owners group, which is a new entity that we will be going out to acquire MSPs to not only, you know, it's not a typical roll up, right.

(15:06 - 15:47)
And that's the term that tends to be used a lot where this company comes, starts buying out MSPs, gets to a certain revenue number, hits their exit number, they eject and call it a day. You know, for us, you know, we were trying to gather a good group of MSPs, a team, things of that nature, really for those that want to stay. And the biggest piece of it is to really better at one, better the channel and better the IT industry, but also to be able to have the opportunity to just instill a culture that transactional leadership is not the way to win in this game.

(15:47 - 16:03)
Similar to some of the conversations we had back in the day in 2015, when we happened to be in that infamous room where they said that the small guy can't succeed. Right. And so, you know, this has always been something that's been a passion of mine.

(16:03 - 16:28)
We've kind of further around for many, many years fighting that good fight along with you, with MSP unplugged side and things of that nature. And so this is an opportunity to not only highlight some of those stories and make acquisitions that may not be the typical acquisitions. You know, we are in a position where we are not funded by private equity.

(16:28 - 16:43)
We are self-funded. And so we have the ability to make those decisions and have our own, you know, sailing of the ship, as it were, to have those join us as we kind of move forward. So I am CEO of MSP Owners Group.

(16:43 - 17:30)
I have sold a majority portion of ProdigyTeks. I'm still the founder of ProdigyTeks. Soon enough, I will no longer be the CEO of ProdigyTeks, but there will be a managing director that will be taking over ProdigyTeks to handle the ProdigyTeks Chicago local stuff. 

But essentially, I will be helping lead, finding and just hopefully getting a great group of people to join us on that mission and move forward with the MSP Owners Group. So I did ask Juan the question that some of the others asked, and there are some other franchise like organizations out there. But of course, the one everybody knows is the 20.

(17:31 - 18:13)
And I asked him, I said, how much is this going to be like the 20? And he said, nothing like the 20. It sounds like the opportunity is a little different where, yes, people might sell the ownership, but they can still operate and do exactly what they want, how they want. There doesn't seem to be this little centralized model, or is there? No, correct. 

I mean, you know, outside of the normal, you know, you got to standardize some stuff, right? Internal business things. But as far as how a business owner wants to operate their business, they still can't like we're purchasing them for them to stay. And so we want to make sure that that's the leader that wants to come and join us.

(18:14 - 18:59)
If it's someone that wants to sell their MSP because they're kind of tired of it, they're ready to go, you know, enjoy on the beach and play golf. That's not for us. We're not the group for them. 

They can go. You know, we're more than happy to make those introductions to other entities that I have now been introduced to in my new role. But others, you know, again, our main goal is, you know, I think for me, you know, we always wish that we had an opportunity to get help or seek help somehow to make something work. 

Right. And you and me, we tried to do this through on the MSP unplug side, provide resources, provide our experiences, what not to do, because this is what we did. And we messed that up pretty fiercely.

(19:00 - 19:15)
And so we have these traits of what not to do to help the next person. Right. For MSP owners group, it's one of those where, you know, sometimes, you know, there may be an MSP. 

It's like, man, I wish I really I want to do it. I wish I could do it. There's something that's not clicking.

(19:16 - 19:26)
I don't know what it is. You know, I'm just up in my ears of either work, debt, customers, clients. You know, they need an ability to figure out how to do this thing.

(19:26 - 20:20)
Right. And so, you know, for us is we're trying to ensure that we help those MSPs succeed. And purely simple, how do we help them with success and how do we help their clients succeed and get that success as well? Right. 

And so really the big piece of it all is for someone that is, again, trying to figure it out. You know, we want to be able to instill and create those leaders so that they have the ability to have that ownership and work in their business with these either new set of resources, this new updated process that they didn't know or didn't have the time to do, you know, because there's a lot of, you know, one person shows, two person shows, three person shows, even for a couple of bigger size that just are trying to figure it out. And so our hope is that we have that ability to provide them some of those resources and opportunity to move forward.

(20:20 - 20:30)
But the long ramble of that is no to your to answer your question. Yes, we want them to stay. We want them to continue operating their own business.

(20:30 - 21:02)
Again, this is going to be a global MSP, right? So there's going to be opportunities to allow for making them succeed in what they're doing. But also as me, as the CEO of MSP Owners Group, there'll be a kind of like a co-CEO type situation. So as we purchase that majority stake, it'll be me and that other CEO or CEO that's the operators on how can we help provide some of that value, instilling the employee experience so that they can maintain that client experience as they move forward.

(21:02 - 21:26)
But the point is not to disrupt and change things, as you have seen with some of the other acquisitions from other companies that have folded into another bigger MSP. Right. One of the, I guess, pillars is this whole collaboration piece, almost like the shared ecosystem where as members come in, their knowledge kind of gets shared.

(21:27 - 21:43)
It sounds to me like it's more of a like peer group on steroids. Does that sound accurate? Yeah, you could say that. I mean, it is definitely a collective of collaborating bodies to figure out what is the next move. 

Right. We have a chart. We have a map of what we're trying to go to.

(21:44 - 21:51)
I think right now what we're trying to figure out is who are those great people to converse with. Right. It's, you know, right now.

(21:52 - 22:01)
And here's another thing. Right. I think that a lot of the businesses now, some of the ones that you have mentioned, you know, they are working in a time of now.

(22:02 - 23:20)
And I think everyone is trying to figure out, all right, well, how do we become the service provider of the future? But I think the biggest question that they that I have been asking a lot of people out there and one words this differently, but in five years, where do you see yourself doing? Because the question becomes, what do you do and what you're doing now is no longer the thing you're doing anymore. And so, you know, there are still people that do typewriters, there's still people that do, you know, there's horse and buggy for cars. Right. 

But when the service providing industry changes, when it does, and we had a glimpse of that at PAX 8 when they talked about their terminology of MIBS and how this whole industry is changing. What are you going to do? And the question becomes, are you ready to adapt? And so some people are like, well, we've gone through these transitions, you know, pandemic before that, the cloud, digital, things of that nature. Are you ready for that next change again? Or are you going to figure out what you want to do? So that's the question that often gets prompted is in five years from now, what is it you're going to do? And so being able to look at that, you have to have those right mind of peers around you.

(23:20 - 23:43)
You have to have that collective hive mind, as if it were, you know, peer group on steroids is a good way to say it. I like collective, but there's a collaborative motion across all of what we do here and the team that we have assembled on this side as well. All right. 

I don't like the word collective because it reminds me of the board. Ah, waka, waka, waka. The board.

(23:43 - 24:03)
The board. We are one. OK, another point that was brought up is that this is not necessarily about growth, but I am going to ask the question of a year from now, you have a few people inquire, join up, whatever.

(24:04 - 24:19)
What is the long term goal in terms of the MSP owners group as to the number of companies? How will you go after companies? Are you just going to, you know, basically wait for people to come to you? Oh, we're going to wing it, Marv. That's what. No, I'm kidding.

(24:20 - 24:40)
No, I mean, I think, you know, we do have some internal goals on what we're trying to do, but, you know, there is no revenue goal that we're trying to, you know, look at for acquisition or what we're trying to go. We do have some aggressive internal goals, what we're trying to do internally for each and one of us, for those that want to join the fray. It's a matter of inquiring with us.

(24:41 - 25:25)
I will say that there is quite a bit, quite a bit, quite. Yeah, I guess that's rightly a quite a bit of MSPs that have already inquired about joining without knowing much. Right. 

Just because of the star power that Juan brings and his legacy and what he's contributed to the industry, you know, the discussion of how this all kind of came about. And so right now we're just, you know, we're talking to people, we're seeing where they're at. You know, are they a great, you know, addition to the collective and to the hive mind? And really, it's again, it's not just my decision, because I think Juan had told you on an interview that that's all Paco for the MSPs and M&A.

(25:25 - 25:32)
He likes to defer and deflect. That is not entirely true. However, you know, we all equally have that ability.

(25:32 - 25:39)
And obviously, you know, first stop is myself to determine if this is the right fit. Right. Because as you know, I'm big on culture.

(25:39 - 26:03)
I'm big on relationship leadership. And, you know, if the experience is and not there, you know, sometimes it's just not up to snuff, you know. And there have been some conversations we had where I just didn't think that they were fit. 

And there are others that we have. So more news to come from that. And as we kind of move through the year, you know, there'll probably be some more names to be added and discussed.

(26:03 - 26:35)
But as of right now, yeah, it's a matter of we're just we got our internal goals where we're working on those internally for what we got. And for those that want to join the fray, we're going through that process to have a conversation and see if they're a good fit. All right. 

I actually did not go to the website. Actually, I just went to steal the logo, but I was looking for to see if there were any announcements. Like I said, I know it's only been a while.

(26:36 - 26:54)
Prodigy Tech and Cool Technology Group were the first two members mentioned. I assume that there was at least enough interest that maybe somebody else might have joined by now. No one that we can disclose at this time, because obviously there's the whole due diligence and conversation and such.

(26:54 - 27:10)
So nothing official. But as you mentioned, myself being one of the first and then Chris Kuhl from Cool Technology Group, as mentioned, Chris will be the CEO of the financing and leasing arm of that business. So he'll be helping with some of that piece.

(27:10 - 27:53)
And then obviously his MSP, along with mine, will be under us with our chief operating officer and some of the other key component of people helping with those components of operations, sales and things of that nature. All right. So how tough will the background check and the financial, you know, data check all of that stuff? Because, you know, some people might want to join you and buy about stuff. 

How deep are you guys going to go? You know, I will say that our CFO is very skilled and, you know, we have a great CFO. We have a great legal team, you know, who have been around the business. You know, they know these type of things.

(27:53 - 28:14)
They've been through acquisitions and gone through many bigger acquisitions, smaller acquisitions, book of businesses. So they've kind of seen around the parks and, you know, the devil's in the details. What I will say is, you know, we're not doing it in the traditional sense of how other acquisitions occur.

(28:15 - 28:35)
Right. For us, we understand the value of what it means to be to run a small business and to run an MSP in general. Right. 

For us is, you know, we're looking for those that are looking to look for the future. And I know that sounds very cliche. And I know a lot of the stuff that I talked about in the last probably 10 to 15 minutes does not sound like me.

(28:35 - 29:37)
It sounds very, very marketing and vague and stuff like that. Right. And so there's only so much that I can reveal right from inside of behind the curtain. 

But I'm trying to speak on it. And I'm wording it in a certain way so that those that who don't know me and have listened to me all these years will understand what I'm saying. Right. 

And so what I will say is, you know, for those that have heard my stories, my, you know, what I've gone through financially, operational wise, difficulty in a lot of those things that were a typical acquisition would not be looked at, would not an acquirer, would not look at my business to acquire. We are doing things differently. So if for some odd reason, if someone listening here was interested to talk on M&A and I know that that's a topic our community has never really discussed, never really encouraged, never really pondered.

(29:37 - 30:05)
Right. Because it was either A, those are the big guys or B, it's you know, I don't plan to ever sell my business because this is going to be what I do to run it for us. It's if there's an opportunity to help and there's more resources to be provided, I now am able to do what I did at MSP Unplugged, but now on an official side on the MSP owners group, if that's ever an option anybody listening wanted to take.

(30:06 - 30:17)
But I will say that there are no true standards. You know, we are looking at each one on an MSP by MSP basis. And again, it's just a matter of culture.

(30:17 - 31:17)
That is the number one pillar for us, because, you know, for us, you know, we're trying to drive success for a business. We're trying to drive success for the MSP. But really for us, the biggest piece, at least for our, like, quote unquote, success is leadership. 

And so for us, because I mentioned before on how, you know, when we all kind of jumped in here, you know, we wanted to be able to make some good and move forward with this mission. We didn't want to just sell an exit, so we made it a big piece of our mission statement or like the mast of our ship, is what Juan says, is when we have the ability to create another leader, that's not success. For us to be able to see that that leader created another leader, that's when we find that success. 

And that's what the model that we're building and that's what we're trying to replicate here at the MSP owners group. All right. So you mentioned that room in 2015.

(31:19 - 31:46)
That's 10 years ago this week, my man. Did you know that? I did know that it was very interesting because, as you know, we talked, we podcast over at ChannelCon, which now ChannelCon is a completely different organization now. It is no longer CompTIA, it is GTIA and headed by a new CEO and some new ideology is what I'm told on there.

(31:46 - 32:13)
And so, you know, it's amazing on how much of a moment can steer an entire community. And really reflecting on that, me and Rick actually saw the individual that sparked the person. I swear to you, he was down the hall and I said, you know who that is right there? He says, that's not who I think it is.

(32:13 - 32:37)
And I said, that is who you think it is. And, yep, sure enough, it was him. And so the comment I made to Rick was, it's amazing that this man has lived 10 years and probably has no idea what he sparked and caused and a movement that has developed an entire new communities because of the comment he made on that stage.

(32:39 - 33:01)
That was the birth of the man in the van. The man in the van, TechCon Unplugged, the whole, the UnConvention, all of it. I think it all started, it started a movement that I think I would like to believe that 10 years later, the industry is much better than what it was.

(33:01 - 33:28)
There's still work to be done. But I think it's a lot better than and getting a lot of credit to those that are running this business as a, just as themselves, as a nimble MSP. And even you hear a lot of thought leaders such as like Matt Lee and some of the others, really smart folks that say that if they were to start an MSP right now, they would have such a lower labor force because of the technology that is available to us right now.

(33:28 - 34:01)
You can now absolutely build a service providing business with the intention of ensuring that your clients' information and you mitigate risk and also ensure that they are on that trinity of what a sales and what a business cares, increase their, increase their sales, reduce their cost and expand their market share. Once you hit those three pieces for a business, you are a trusted advisor of theirs for many, many years to come. And so, you know, it's amazing how that's changed.

(34:01 - 34:19)
Things have certainly changed. And it popped up a question that I want to, I want to wait until after we thank our sponsors to ask you, because I have a feeling it's going to generate some stuff here. So give us a couple of minutes here to say thanks to our sponsors.

(34:19 - 34:48)
I will be right back. Is your business truly protected from cyber threats? ThreatLocker is the gold standard, zero trust, endpoint protection, trusted by IT professionals everywhere. ThreatLocker blocks everything that is not explicitly trusted, denying all applications and scripts from running unless explicitly allowed.

(34:49 - 35:05)
And that includes ransomware. Easy to deploy, easy to manage and backed by a 24-7 support team that is lightning fast with response times around 60 seconds. Stop cyber-attacks before they start and sleep easier at night.

(35:06 - 35:35)
Click on the ThreatLocker link in the show notes and start your free 30 day trial today, lock down your endpoints and say goodbye to ransomware. Be sure to also check out our other amazing sponsors, NetAlly, LionGuard, TruGrid, Bvoip, Rhythms and DesignerReady. For more details on these partners and their exclusive offers, check out their links in the show notes or visit itbusinesspodcast.com slash sponsors.

(35:35 - 35:50)
And a special thanks to our incredible listener supporters whose monthly contributions help keep this show running strong. I truly appreciate each and every one of you for being the backbone of the IT business podcast. Hala.

(36:16 - 36:37)
So one of the things that I also want to do is say thank you to the community. Uh, apparently you guys have helped me with a lot of purchasing on Amazon that, uh, I was actually able to reach a status on Amazon that I had no idea what it meant. Uh, I'm a gold affiliate.

(36:38 - 37:06)
Um, I don't know what it means except for the fact that it now allows me that if I hit certain shipping numbers on a monthly basis, they give a bonus. So, uh, I am looking to do that now because I have some stuff I want and I think that if I can do it through the Amazon program, that would be great. So one of the things that I want to do is go back to the time where I would recognize things that listeners had purchased.

(37:07 - 37:21)
Uh, I used to be able to put a little grip on the website that would show everybody a rotating carousel of items that was purchased. The website that I use to run the podcast no longer allows that. Let me rephrase that.

(37:22 - 37:32)
Amazon doesn't allow that strip to be done on the websites anymore. So I can't just throw up a thing up there. So I have to kind of individually do products or stuff like that.

(37:33 - 37:57)
So what I want to do is talk about a product that somebody purchased recently and it was actually something that I had recommended a while ago. So I want to quickly bring that up and I'm talking about a product called the Wavlink Universal USB-C Laptop Docking Station. It's a powerhouse hub designed for serious multitaskers.

(37:58 - 38:11)
You can support dual monitors up to 5K or 4K at 60 Hertz. And if you have a laptop, it turns your laptop into a workspace. You can run two HDMI or two DisplayPort monitors.

(38:12 - 38:18)
You have six USB ports. Setup is simple. You just plug in the devices and you're good to go.

(38:19 - 38:32)
Works on both Mac and Windows. It's compact. It's sturdy and it's an excellent affordable solution to expand your laptop's potential, streamline cable chaos and maximize productivity.

(38:32 - 38:58)
I will have the link in the show notes for this. I love it. I don't use it myself, but I have clients that have mobile laptops all the time. 

But when they come into the office, they want to have multiple big screens. So all they do is plug their cable into this and they actually have three monitors, the laptop screen plus the two monitors. So check out the Wavlink there and do all of your shopping on Amazon using my link.

(38:59 - 39:12)
Save it as a favorite. And so for those that are interested, there is a triple display version of that Wavlink docking station, which I have that has supports three full monitors. Nice, nice, nice, nice.

(39:12 - 39:27)
What size monitors you rocking? Just the 34 and 227s. Oh, pretty big. They're curved. 

So, you know, hopefully. So I was looking. So I've got two 24.

(39:28 - 39:39)
Now, these are 27s. I have 24s in my office and I got a 27 at the house. I was thinking of doing a curved and I had the client that got the 39 inch curve.

(39:39 - 39:44)
That was nice. And I thought, oh, I would like that. But it gets pricey.

(39:45 - 40:02)
So maybe these Amazon bonus bonuses will help with all that. There you go. Before we get back to the questions on MSP owner's group and the other stuff, let me go back and ask you 10 years ago, we were in that room.

(40:03 - 40:13)
A lot has transpired since then. You almost left the industry. But look at you now.

(40:13 - 40:36)
So let me just kind of ask, could you have imagined then when we were all going through that in 2015, going through the ups and downs to where now you are CEO of multiple companies? You've got the MSP unplugged, TechCon Unplugged. I mean. Yeah.

(40:36 - 41:20)
What are your thoughts? It's funny because you say that, right? It's like 10 years and 10 years. You know, when you look at it on paper, it's not a lot of time when you when you look at it, you know, and depending on how you look at stages of life. And. 

You know, so for everyone to kind of set that stage up, you know, 10 years ago, 2015, I would have just started like form the business legally with the state that was in 2013, but I was still working a nine to five at that time. So I was a part time business owner. I did not go full time until the end, literally the end of 2016 going into 2017.

(41:21 - 41:48)
So really, truly, 2017 was when I went full time on my own to try and make this whole thing work. You know, it's funny you say that, because when you take inventory in that realm, I feel that I have to go through those processes to be able to talk to those. In those stages, because I think and I said this in our in our all company retreat when we were in Clearwater a couple of weeks ago that.

(41:49 - 42:35)
I have the fortunate opportunity to talk to every MSP in each stage of their business that I can draw from an experience. Now, the information may be different in today's times, but, you know, everything from you started a business and you're working your nine to five to then jumping out on your own and trying to make that stable to finally getting it stable. And how do you optimize to then working with contractors, going from employees, going with an outsourced help desk, switching to another outsourced help desk, telling that outsourced help desk to pound sand, then moving forward to another one and just trying to find your way through that whole process is.

(42:36 - 42:47)
And it's a fortunate thing that I think. I'm glad I went through. Now I can say that I'm happy I went through it during the time.

(42:47 - 42:50)
It sucked going through some of those things. But that's the whole point of being a leader. Right.

(42:50 - 43:05)
And that's the main reason why, you know, I was approached by Juan to be the CEO is, you know, for anyone that talks to me, you only get one Paco. Like there's no there's no bullshit with me. Like you get what you get.

(43:05 - 43:12)
So I either have people that really, really like me and respect or there are people that can't stand me. But it's the same person. Right.

(43:12 - 43:37)
I'm an acquired taste. But, you know, I hope to have built enough trust in the industry where, you know, through these whole things, I will let them know specifically on what it is. So to think I will be where I am now to where 10 years ago I am, I wouldn't have even fathomed that that would even be the case where I'm in right now.

(43:37 - 43:53)
And you're correct. You know, I think that, you know, we I did think about leaving the industry back in 2008, end of 2018. You know, and then I left podcasting for a little bit as well and then came back.

(43:53 - 44:07)
So, yeah, it's definitely been an interesting transition and a different and a different way of looking at things for sure. But yeah, the me 10 years ago is definitely a different me than now for all the experiences learned. Yeah.

(44:09 - 44:40)
I think that I've been talking to some folks and I sent an email to you that you didn't respond to, by the way, that next year will be 10 years of hosting this show in some form or fashion. This is 10 years of us meeting in Chicago. Technically, the first time a lot of us actually met each other in person and not over, you know, Google Hangouts or whatever it was we were using at the time.

(44:41 - 44:52)
I'm sure I'm trying to figure out a way we need to kind of celebrate this 10 years together as a journey. So we'll figure all that out. Yeah, I will look for this email you said you sent me because I probably missed it.

(44:54 - 45:19)
I started out this show talking about waking up in a cold sweat. And, you know, we always have a phrase in this industry, you know, of trying to deal with the stuff that keeps us up at night. And I'll be honest, I really when I got to the point where I realized that I could fire a client, I did not have nights where I would feel that way.

(45:19 - 45:36)
I wasn't up at night worried. And as long as I did my job, as long as I covered my butt, and as long as I had frank, honest discussions with clients and they understood the risk, if they decided not to do something, I listen to my decisions, your business. So, right.

(45:36 - 45:54)
You know, we separated that out. But having that this morning was kind of like, oh. For the first time in a long time, I'm like, did I really just wake up thinking about work? Do you have times like that where you, you know, either can't sleep or you wake up and you're just.

(45:55 - 46:07)
Either got a dream you can’t get rid of cold sweat, something. You know, it hasn't happened in a long time. I think that we have this issue.

(46:08 - 46:56)
Us as in entrepreneurs, MSP owners, we take on so much on ourselves, especially those that have so many multiple hats. I think we don't give ourself permissions to let go for the day and we'll come back to it in the morning. So I had a very good mentor of mine back in corporate who used to tell me, you know, if you write down whatever is on your mind that you can't go to sleep or you wake up in a cold sweat or whatever it is, if you write it down in a notebook and he says writing it, but I mean, if you don't have something you type it on your phone and your notepad, but if you write it down, it somehow gives permission to your brain that you can allow it to forget because it's now been transferred to some other vessel that has helped very much so in many, many years.

(46:57 - 47:18)
Obviously, now there's a whole another set of new problems, right? And things to worry about. But what I can tell you is, you know, that feeling of, man, I'm stuck with these, you know, bad dollar clients because I have to pay the bills or I have to do whatever. You know, you do have to.

(47:18 - 47:48)
It often does try to motivate you to try and replace that bad dollar for a good dollar, right? Because we all have to we all have to do it. We all have to eat it for so long so that we can have the ability to move forward into a more of a positive note. But I will say that, you know, for those that have never fired a client, the moment that you do, it gives you a sense of freedom that you have the ability to separate from something that's not benefiting you.

(47:49 - 48:03)
And so when you give yourself that permission, it becomes easier down the line to understand, hey, I really didn't need this revenue from this client. Yeah, it sucks revenue wise right now. Or you were you were had the ability to replace that revenue.

(48:03 - 48:27)
But the mental anguish and the ability of being focused to find something else better does help in the long run versus just dealing with the same old, same old one after another. And I remember the first client I fired. I mean, I remember that I used to hate walking into Monday, waiting for his call at nine thirty in the morning to tell me, hey, where are we? Because he added yet another project on my scope.

(48:27 - 48:57)
And there was just so much work to be done. So what I will say is that, you know, it is a hard thing to do. But when you do get the opportunity to do it for the right reasons, it is very it is freeing because you are basically letting go and you're not living in fear to do that as well. 

Yeah. Tom Wyant had put a comment early in the show. Self-care, a member of 25, which is sometimes it's not the decision to fire.

(48:57 - 49:15)
Sometimes it's other decisions, the ability to make the decision that's right for you. Uh, having the ability to say no when you either can't do something or won't do something and feeling confident with the choice that you've made. And that's huge.

(49:15 - 49:29)
So that's where I am. Yeah. The summer of Marv. 

Interesting. So, um, you know what? I. Congrats on hitting 500 subscribers. So that is coming from YouTube.

(49:29 - 49:35)
I did not know I was at 500 subscribers. Yeah, there I am. Yeah.

(49:36 - 49:42)
Yeah, I'm not a good YouTuber. I'm not out there. Well, I ring that bell.

(49:42 - 50:10)
Well, it's funny because I'm we're doing a lot more of paying attention to like analytics and things of that nature, trying to figure out where tech con is going to be next year. Oops, did I say that? And so kind of figuring out where to operate from. And so, you know, we've only we've always you and I and Jeff and everyone from there always treated YouTube similarly to our audio podcast.

(50:11 - 50:34)
And what I come to find out is not only obviously the two platforms are very different. Apparently, the strategies are very different between the two as well and treating them differently as well for both exposure and for value oriented things as well. So we're working on revamping a lot of that right now, including even rebuilding some of our community outreach on some of the stuff.

(50:34 - 50:38)
So it's been interesting. All right. It's on a hat you're juggling, man.

(50:39 - 50:52)
Yeah. And so this is another question that came up and we hadn't had a chance to formally address it on the MSP Unplugged podcast. But just so that everyone is aware, MSP Unplugged is a completely separate business.

(50:52 - 51:03)
It is an official business that is owned by myself and Rick. So me and Rick are owners of this business. This was not part of the acquisition with MSP Owners Group.

(51:03 - 51:14)
ProdigyTeks was done on a completely separate basis. So MSP Unplugged is not affected in any way. Still operates in the same fashion that it has in previous years.

(51:15 - 51:23)
We did things a little bit different this year. Our last road stop is in Dallas. But, you know, there may be some news coming up about next year.

(51:23 - 51:38)
We don't know. Is MSP Unplugged up for sale? MSP Unplugged is not up for sale. So the only new addition you've seen is obviously we've added Corey, who's been an amazing new co-host to provide a great new breath of fresh air.

(51:39 - 52:00)
His expertise and his experience for how long he's been in business. He's very AI focused and driven, having built solutions inside of his own MSP. So it's been great to have him over the last now eight months to kind of culminate collectively and talk and provide his own spin on things as well.

(52:01 - 52:19)
All right, as you know, a lot of selling and buying going on. Another media place got bought, you know, by a big conglomerate. Well, I mean, we kind of knew that situation had been a while.

(52:19 - 52:26)
It's all news, but it's hey, we happen to celebrate. Right. But no, no, MSP Unplugged is not for sale.

(52:27 - 52:51)
There will be no acquiring anytime soon. That is a we still want that to be a safe avenue for MSPs to come get value, try to get as many opportunities that we can provide them. That is in no way, shape or form any relation to other than I am associated with MSP Unplugged versus with MSP Owners Group.

(52:51 - 53:00)
But no, it is still everything is still the same. There's concern that I might not be around as much because of the new role. I can tell you that that is not going to be the case.

(53:00 - 53:11)
I will still be regularly trying to attend a lot of these things. If not, the MSP Unplugged podcast may grow bigger. So we will see how that goes from there.

(53:11 - 53:19)
All right. And I'm going to wait to ask my question about TechCon Unplugged until after Dallas. You can wait till after Dallas.

(53:19 - 53:41)
Maybe you may even say, you know, maybe we may make the announcement at Dallas of where we will be next year. We'll need to get a call for so let's must is not in Fort Lauderdale. I can tell you right now we are not looking at Fort Lauderdale, but you will be getting a call soon on what that looks like for next year.

(53:41 - 53:49)
Oh, OK. All right. Well, having said that next week, I am going to be making a big announcement again.

(53:50 - 54:00)
The Florida Man games. Round three is back on. And I am getting all the details together on that, but it is official.

(54:00 - 54:05)
It is happening. The date has been set. The location has been set.

(54:05 - 54:21)
So I'm waiting for all the official paperwork and all that to come out. So I will once again be at the Florida Man games, and we are going to do it up much better than we did last time. I think we are going with a tent.

(54:22 - 54:34)
We're going with the full studio. And hopefully we're going to have a mobile camera so that we can actually go to each of the events and film them. So I'm working on all that.

(54:34 - 54:51)
But for those of you that have an interest in Florida Man games, for those of you that don't, sorry, you're going to hear about it for a few months now. Will you have Internet connectivity while you're there? So. I don't know.

(54:52 - 55:06)
Roger that. I have to renegotiate is basically what it is. Roger that. 

We'll figure it out. But with that, our Florida Man story for tonight. Florida Man with three secret marriages sentenced.

(55:08 - 55:40)
So this is a story that came out in July, but I'm just now getting around to it because Henry Betsy, Jr. was just sentenced to two years of probation after being convicted of felony bigamy for secretly marrying three women in three different counties without any of them knowing about the others. So he met all three women. And here are their names, Tanya, Brandy and Michelle.

(55:41 - 55:57)
And they were all found on separate dating apps, tender, stir and match. So he married Tanya in Jacksonville in November of 2020. Brandy and Manatee County in February of 2022.

(55:57 - 56:13)
And Michelle in Hernando County in November of 2022. Just weeks after meeting her. So my first question, of course, is if you know Florida, those aren't really close together.

(56:13 - 56:37)
So I can understand doing that. But I'm like, how did the man justify being gone for so long? But it was none of the other knew that he was married. To anybody else until Tanya, wife number one, searched county records and found marriage licenses connecting him to the other women.

(56:39 - 56:57)
As part of the trial, they each spoke in court about how he had deceived them. Each of them said that he sold the perfect person and said all the right things. In reality, they believe his deception was financially motivated.

(56:58 - 57:15)
One mentioned he quickly pushed for joint bank accounts. So he pleaded to he pleaded guilty to bigamy, apologized in court. It was ordered to stay away from dating sites, social media and to have no contact with his former wives.

(57:16 - 57:40)
And in the addition to probation, he was fingerprinted. DNA sample was collected and he was giving eight days credit for the time served. And now there is a bill going around the Florida legislature to have a statewide marriage license database so that people can search, because apparently right now.

(57:41 - 57:48)
Each county has their own database and they don't share. So. We're going to put a stop to that.

(57:49 - 58:06)
I just want to know what made the first wife think I'm going to search other records for marriage licenses, not just, you know, hey, there's another woman there and let me search his phone. But like, I'm going to search for records to see if he's married. Like, I'm curious as to what spawned that inkling.

(58:07 - 58:20)
It didn't say. And I, you know, I wish I were an investigative reporter and would, you know, ask these questions, because obviously there had to be some other stuff that she did. She probably checked social media looking for him.

(58:20 - 58:41)
She probably was asking his friends and either he had no friends or these friends were pretty good at keeping his secret. So, oh, Corey Clark in the house, taking time away from his daily duties. Corey will be doing a show with me next week.

(58:41 - 58:59)
I'm going to go ahead and spill the beans right now. I toyed with the idea of talking about SonicWall taking a hit some of the people on social media and Reddit have been killing SonicWall for what they're going through. I use SonicWall.

(58:59 - 59:08)
I don't have any of those issues because I haven't used SSL VPN in quite some time. It's been a known vulnerability. I don't know why people are piling on.

(59:09 - 59:21)
There are other vendors that have had this issue, including Cisco and Fortinet. Why aren't you guys piling on them? Anyway, that's my soapbox. We'll talk about that later sometime next week.

(59:21 - 59:27)
It won't be on the live show. It'll be an off an offshoot show with Corey. And I believe Michael might join us, too.

(59:27 - 59:38)
So I'm hoping I'm hoping we get a little PG-13 action going. I saw Mr. Creamy not too long ago, and I forgot what show it was. So it was good to see him.

(59:39 - 59:46)
Well, good for you. I haven't seen him out. He's been hopping the pond and doing all the other stuff.

(59:47 - 59:55)
I walked up to him and said, you know, I call. I write and no answer. And the reply I got was, Bose, you have to reach out to me.

(59:56 - 1:00:02)
But it was good to see him. He's a dear friend of ours. And we always love the opportunity.

(1:00:05 - 1:00:12)
All right, my friend. Well, I don't I don't know if I publicly told you. Congratulations on the MSP owners group.

(1:00:12 - 1:00:21)
So let me do that now. And look forward to see how you juggle all the hats. Over the next few months.

(1:00:21 - 1:00:35)
And I will especially say, looking forward to see what happens with TechCon 2026, I again, I am sorry. I did not make any of the tech cons this year. You know, it was a weird.

(1:00:36 - 1:00:54)
So there was some learning lessons for this year, right? I think that, you know, the branding was off. You know, we really should have called this thing the MSP unplugged roadshow because it really wasn't a tech con. It was really meant to garner and grow the community and get a lot of new blood involved.

(1:00:55 - 1:01:05)
And we've been successful in the last show in Chicago. Dallas is coming up here September 12th. So we're full steam ahead on that one.

(1:01:05 - 1:01:11)
Seems to be going to be a great show. I will drop it here first. It'll be announced here shortly.

(1:01:11 - 1:01:25)
But Juan Fernandez will be doing our pre events on Dallas September 12th. And it'll be a great session on what is your customer not telling you. So it'll be a rendition of that talk that he has done.

(1:01:25 - 1:01:34)
But there's going to be a little twist on there as well. So if you have been to any of his presentations, they're always really worthwhile. Definitely go ahead and check it out.

(1:01:35 - 1:01:47)
It's going to be a good time. All right, just put the link there to the website, if you. Are still available to go to the Dallas event if you're on the west side of the Mississippi and can drive there.

(1:01:48 - 1:01:54)
Great. Or if you want to fly. I will still be in my summer of 25 summer of Marv.

(1:01:55 - 1:02:00)
Yeah, we will definitely connect for next year. You will. All right.

(1:02:00 - 1:02:23)
Well, thank you very much, Paco, for taking time out and chatting with us and answering questions, honestly. Thank you for talking favorably about the GTIA, formerly known as CompTIA and ChannelCon. And the man in the van will be making an appearance next month.

(1:02:24 - 1:02:34)
No, no, October. I've got the there's something in the works with that, but I won't be talking to that person. I should. 

I should reach out to him. You should. He probably has no idea.

(1:02:35 - 1:02:38)
He probably doesn't. He has no idea. He talked to him once.

(1:02:38 - 1:02:50)
I remember, but I don't know if we did we ever fully tell him like, hey, you're responsible. Yeah. So now I talk to him and I think I got him to either commit to another phone call or a chat.

(1:02:51 - 1:02:58)
I think I was I don't think I officially asked him to come on the show, but he's like, yeah, call me. And I never did. I don't know why.

(1:02:58 - 1:03:15)
And it's funny, too, because, like, you know, we all have our what we remember that day. And, you know, I remember him saying it, but I don't even remember if he was the one that kind of started that whole process. I think he just mentioned it and someone else on that stage kind of just really start digging into the Nimble MSP.

(1:03:15 - 1:03:18)
I just can't recall. It's been so long. Well, here's what I will say.

(1:03:18 - 1:03:45)
The one thing that stuck out more than what he said was the gentleman that was at the very end was complaining about making six hundred grand with eight people. Oh, right. And I remember at the time, you know, remember 2015 and I'm like, all right, if we do the math, I'm making more per person than he was, than he was.

(1:03:46 - 1:04:01)
And it wasn't too long after that. I hit six hundred by myself. Yeah, I can't. 

No, I didn't do that every year. Folks don't think that that's, you know, ours being now that kind of cash, but I'm doing OK. I got that, though.

(1:04:02 - 1:04:19)
But I remember two years where I hit that by myself and I'm like, something's wrong either with where his location is or what they're doing. But we never got to have that conversation. But right. 

It was just that's what sticks out. Gotcha. But anyway, we'll chat about that another time.

(1:04:19 - 1:04:25)
All right, folks, thank you all for hanging out here. We got some people there. Thank you.

(1:04:25 - 1:04:33)
Those on YouTube, I didn't again, did not realize I was at five hundred. Thank you very much. For those of you watching on the LinkedIn had some people there.

(1:04:33 - 1:04:41)
Tom, Corey, thank you very much. We'll be back next week. I don't know who the guest is, but I've got guests scheduled the next couple of weeks.

(1:04:41 - 1:04:46)
So we'll be back again live. A couple of other shows in between. Check out everything over at the IT Business Podcast.

(1:04:47 - 1:04:52)
Click on all the links for our sponsors. Shop at Amazon. Do what you do, folks.

(1:04:52 - 1:04:55)
Help me out. That's going to do it. I'll see you soon.

(1:04:56 - 1:04:58)
And until next time, Holla!.