Automating MSP Success with Cyft (EP 849)

Hello friends, Uncle Marv here with another episode of the IT Business Podcast, the show for IT professionals and MSPs to help you run your business better, smarter and faster. We are here live once again. We are still on day one at Pax8Beyond.

It has been a long day, but it has been a fun day. And I'm still here on Radio Row. We are now up to 11 booths that are here.

So it is going to get loud from time to time. So just giving you the heads up ahead of time, although it's after lunch, people might be having naps. So we'll see how it goes.

Let me introduce my next guest. Jeffrey Newton is a co-founder of a company called CYFT. C-Y-F-T.

And Jeffrey, the first thing I've got to ask is, what is up with the name? What does it mean? And how did you come up with that? Yeah, so it was really almost a byproduct of where we landed on the problem that we were solving. Ultimately, it stands for CYFT, as in Cyfting through the information. Okay.

What we found is the most valuable information for MSPs is pretty much locked up in the context. That never makes it to a business system. Or it's there, but you don't know how to get to it.

Okay. So it's not really visible, measurable, then you can't be accountable. And so CYFT came out of not only these are basically table stakes, getting the right context in to all of your business systems, but then it's also situational awareness of what should I know as the individual, whether I'm the account manager, the service tech, or anyone really in an MSP of having almost like that real-time boots on the ground intel of how do I need to address this situation.

And so Cyfting through all of the disparate data to enable a tech or anyone in their roles to be able to act and respond in a way that you avoid some of those foot and mouth or like I should have known that, or I'm asking you a bunch of questions I should already know the answers to. Yeah. Now help me understand, because it sounds like CYFT is doing automation for almost all of the MSP processes.

I mean, we've got some in the industry, they're doing AI for the help desk, or they're doing AI for just simple automation tasks and stuff. Now, I may have this wrong, but you're here to correct me. It sounds like you're trying to do this automation AI for everything that we do.

Yeah. We like to say where it all started was from those 18 years of being an MSP and all of the tools that I bought and we tried to deploy, or we did deploy, but enablement and adoption was the place where software went to die for MSPs. And so we refused to build in such a way that did not meet MSPs where they were, meaning exactly how they do their job today.

And to break that down a little further, it's like we understand, I understood at least implicitly and explicitly that most of the enablement and adoption is due to the behavior change, right? Humans dislike change. It does not help when vendors don't design a tool with any awareness of what it's like to sit in the seat of who you brought the solution for. And so we built from the hardware up, meaning we capture the context at the device level so that it can be the phone call that you're already on, if it's a soft phone, right? To your customer.

We can listen to the entire conversation. We can capture all of that context, but then we can do all of the mundane parts of the role for you as well. Like real-time time entry, actual time capture.

We can pull documentation in from your documentation sources like Hoodoo or IT Glue. We'll inform and enrich the context of the ticket. For example, when a ticket comes in and it's just sitting there burning the SLA, some of our agents will go in and say, well, how many other tickets are like this in the last 24 hours for just this client, for all my clients? Are there any upstream outages that we should be aware of, right? Is Microsoft having a degradation issue and that's causing the localized issue with the client or is it localized to the client? We'll actually go do all of that before the tech even grabs the ticket.

Then they just pick up the ticket and they already know what the prescribed course of action is based off of not only those real-time insights, but other documentation, the SOPs you already have written, which then usually gets flipped with, well, what if I don't have any? That's, again, where we can enrich all of your context based off what we capture. We would actually know, well, you don't have an SOP or even a document for this printer for the receptionist's desk and you just did the ticket for it. We can then action off and create the documents and ask you if you want them created as well.

From all of that, that's where the fun begins. That's the context that already isn't getting captured in most MSPs because best practices push for metrics and KPIs like utilization or a time limit on real-time time entry or all-time, every-time, on-time, but it's still more like an accounting function than it is business value, tribal knowledge, experience. Let me dig back a little because this is obviously born out of your MSP experience.

Let me ask about your MSP. How did you get started and how did you come to the point where you realized this has got to change? Yeah. Decades of doing it was where I realized it needed to change.

I spent 18 years in five different MSPs, seven times, in 11 roles. I got to sit in that hot seat holding all those hot potatoes at every aspect, really. I'm sure there's a role out there that I didn't do.

I wasn't a CFO, but on the delivery side, I did all those things. I knew what the CFOs cared about, but at any rate, it was always that friction, the rub between knowing what you wanted to do, wanting and knowing you needed to do it, but either the tools didn't support you or some process foreboded or forced you into this vanilla version of not really delivering an experience to people. I don't want to say it was like becoming jaded over those 18 years, but it was really just the lived pain, the lived experience of all those roles.

How I came to then become a co-founder of CYFT was the last MSP that I was at, I built a sales team there. We functionally broke operations to the point where they shut down outside sales and stopped doing it for 18 months. Then I had to retool and rebuild my sales team.

When I went to do that, I went out to the market, because that's a long time, and looked at what was available. I happened to see a LinkedIn post from Jesse Miller about one of his colleagues who was doing some user discovery interviews for a company that did some AI stuff for sales for MSPs. I'm like, that sounds fascinating.

I volunteered to have that conversation, and one conversation led to two, two led to three, that led to a huge block of consulting hours, which led to, I can't not be a part of what is possible. I brought the 18 years of the MSP experience to that team of co-founders who were very experienced in AI, very experienced in machine learning, very experienced in data and analytics and sales and everything else, but not the MSP piece. It was just a natural fit to say, there are so many amazing things and so many frustrating things that happen inside the four walls of an MSP every day, but you kind of have to live it to know it, to understand where that acute pain is.

That's my joy and my passion now, is I've always wanted to have a bigger impact, because I always felt internal friction, pressure, anxiety, stress, frustration, around even industry best practice as an example. I'm getting fairly well known for being the guy that always puts another B on the end of that, of best practice bullshit, because the industry has been hampered by it. For all the good that it's done in the last 20 years, it's also caused the situation we have, where everyone looks the same, sounds the same, says and does the same things, we're all competing, most are competing as a race to the bottom, like a commodity, and we all feel it, we're all in contention with it, but we don't understand it, and if you zoom out one or two layers of the onion, it's kind of the byproduct of what most of the best practices pare you down, or file you down to become, is just like everything else.

So I had a discussion probably a month ago with somebody where we talked about that specifically, what is best practice really, and can it be best practice across the board? My contention was no, because I have customers where a best practice would literally hinder them, and it's not because of the practice, it's because of what they need in their business, and it's not that what they need is against the best practice, it just doesn't work. And part of what we have to do is build systems, processes that work for the client. Right, and you're exactly right, I put, I think it was two days ago, I put a post out on LinkedIn, and I would consider it to be one of my more raw nerve, not viral, but I mean it had, I don't know, 50 comments it seems like in the first four hours, but it was exactly that.

The hook, the opening line was, when is the industry going to change and shift from best practice to best interest, which is ultimately what you're saying, screw the best practices, we need to make decisions outside the four walls of our MSP, within the best interest of who we're there to serve, right? Now you don't do that in direct conflict or violation of whether it's your core values or your core principles, that's more of a are they a fit for you or not thing, but somewhere along the way, through this crazy maze of best practices, it's like we stopped critically thinking and just sort of moving towards what we were told to do, and we went away from the best interest of our customers, of our employees. Well listen, you're on the dark side now, so you're going to get some of the backlash because there is this concept that vendors have been pushing, quote-unquote best practices based on, hey, what really sells? Absolutely, yeah. So if we invert that exact same phrase, and I think I might even have responded this way in one of my comments is, so we need to move from best practice to best interest, we can reverse that formula and understand why we are where we are.

Yeah, but that's not going to sit well with the private equity firms. And that's my point too, is the best interest of why the vendors do what they do and everything else, it's in the best interest of the private equity and the VC money, it's not in the best interest of the MSP or the client. And so, again, we can see why things are the way they are, and we can also choose to create a different reality, which is a part of what at least we aim to do with all the backlash and the hate too, but it's like, we can do better, we just have to make the choice to do it.

I think this would be a good time to shift the conversation because we've already started. You also do a podcast, The MSP Insider, and I've listened to a few of them. That is, I was trying to think of a proper term that is above what a lot of us do, because a lot of us are putting out content that, you know, we're talking to vendors, we're pitching vendors, I'm a little rogue sometimes because I'll ask the hard questions, I'll do floor-to-man stories, and I'll bring in people from outside the industry.

But it's not hard-hitting, it's not, you know, dateline tech or anything like that. Your show, I almost want to say, it's not highbrow, but it's a high level of thought that goes into the show, goes into the questions you ask, the answers they give, and it's almost that look from above that you were talking about. Was that intentional with that show? It is, and I appreciate the feedback and the context there, too, to hear that, because the show for me, while it is therapeutic to perform, it's not for me.

It's for me through that 18-year journey of being an MSP. There was so much bullshit and numbness that came from the echo chamber that is this channel that isn't in the best interest of MSPs. It's more like value extraction from the MSPs.

But you don't know it when you're in it. And I didn't know it when I was in it. You don't have time.

Yeah, you don't. Absolutely. I wouldn't even have time to listen to a show like mine.

But you have to pick the one or two things you could and then dive deep into it. And so I like that you said the depth of thought, because that's truly how I approach it, is with a high level of reverence for the time. And when I say time, every one of my guests that gives me an hour to 90 minutes to record, I don't look at that as just another thing to do.

I spend probably two hours of prep for each guest, because a lot of the guests that come on, and not all of them, but a lot, they have gone on hundreds of shows. They've had hundreds of conversations. I don't want the same conversation.

I don't want to be a part of the echo chamber. I don't want to perpetuate that same level of shit that's not helpful to me as an MSP sitting in that seat. And so that's why I spend so much time saying, and the best example I can give was Arlen Sorensen's, right? Of all the guests, he's probably been on more stages and talked to more people than anyone of the guests I've interviewed.

And the challenge I placed on myself was, Arlen's giving me an hour of his time. He's the most interviewed of the people I've spoken to. I want the most original and the most unique extraction of his experience as I can get.

And so it's intended to be visceral. It's intended to trigger behavioral response. And it is intended to ideally be like 10x value for anyone who listens.

So the second part of that time commitment was, anyone who listens to any of my content, I place this bar of like, it needs to be worth 10x whatever the value of your time was for the 20 minutes you spent with me, or the hour you spent with me, or some episodes go longer. And so I look at that as being like a good steward of time for people. But ideally, through that same effort, and I tell every guest this before I hit record, I'm showing up to interview you as this former MSP.

There's a lot of lessons that I learned through the seats that I sat in. But I want you to shake me by the shoulders and cuss if you want but give me the tough love bar room conversation of iceberg dead ahead. Help me understand your value, your experience.

And yeah, it's a blast. It's super fulfilling. So let me ask this then.

Let me stay on this part here in terms of doing the show. Was it something that you decided to do as you were starting CYFT to say, hey, I want to have this platform where I can, you know, reach out and have these discussions that I couldn't have as an MSP? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, all of those years, I was still myself.

I was very opinionated. I am a critical thinker. I'm a problem solver. 

And so that doesn't always sit well as like an entrepreneur trapped in other people's companies necessarily. And so I always had enough self-awareness to realize that even though I might have really spicy opinions on something, like I'm wearing someone else's logo and I need to be a good representative of their company. But by the time I shed that skin, which was two weeks into working at CYFT and being a co-founder there was the founder and my co-founder, James, I was getting ready to go do a show similarly to this.

And he said, which is how I've showed up every day since, he's like, Jeff, I need you to understand that you're not in and you're not, you don't work for an MSP anymore. You're in SaaS. There are no rules.

That same fiery person who showed up for hundreds of hours of consulting is who you need to go be out in the world. It's what they need. And so he gave me permission to shed that 20 years of working for someone else to say, no one's going to fire me for being me.

And that was insanely liberating because now I felt like I could finally give that inner MSP voice, the platform that I always wanted but never had because I had to represent other people. So now part B to that question, you're in the vendor space. There's this era we're entering now where vendors are starting to play nice with each other. 

Some of what you say might be juxtaposed to what they're doing. Have you run into any of that yet? And if so, how are you going to address that? That's such a great question. Some of it's public on my page already.

I found some sharp edges pretty quick with certain people, with certain clicks and niches and whatever you want. It's very much like high school in a lot of ways. I don't think people say it, but they should say it.

It's what we should fucking talk about. It's ridiculous. But it kind of goes back to best practice or best interest.

Let's just focus on best interest. I don't really care about how I'm perceived necessarily by the other vendors because I don't feel like I'm playing the same game either because it's not about fitting in in the click. It's about let's say it as it is. 

Let's speak it as it is. The channel has a lot of puppet masters. There's a lot of undertow and a lot of current and a lot of you can't say this around that type of person.

Sorry, that's not me. It's never been me and it will never be me. I'm not out there trying to stir the pie.

I don't have spicy Monday posts. I don't do that stuff just to poke and prod people. Hopefully, even if I rub people the wrong way with my opinions, I try also to go deep enough to help anyone understand at least where I'm coming from with it and why.

And why and the fact that the intent is not to be divisive. The intent is to get it right. Because the weird thing about what we're describing here now is I actually feel like I'm doing far more of a service to the MSPs by being their voice in the channel rather than allowing that echo chamber to be the insulation from the vendor side where it's almost like they controlled the frame of reality.

So there was just certain things you didn't say and certain things you didn't do. And it's like it's fucking bullshit because it's directly incongruent with who we're here to serve. And that is what vendors should be doing.

So how have MSPs? Because CYFT has been out officially, what, 18 months, two years? Yeah, roughly, about 18 months. I've never felt more fulfilled or empowered or impactful than the last 18 months because I show up to every engagement with an MSP, whether it's a sales call, whether it's an enablement call, whether it's an Unleash Additional Capacity call. In a lot of ways, I'm still the MSP guy.

I'm showing up just with that 18 years of experience and helping think or see or look differently at a situation. And so we came out the gate right away with our first version, which was still what I would consider to be more like problem market fit, product market fit for that problem, and then pricing fit for those two things. And it took off right away.

I mean, I've never sold something as easy. It was cold outbound email, which I caught a bunch of shit for from the channel for different reasons, which is a different story. Cold outbound email to a 30-minute demo and people paying with their credit card on the other side.

Because once you see it, you can't unsee it. And once you enter into that frame of reality where you can't unsee it, whether you like it or not and whether you stand like, wherever you stand philosophically on AI, it's not the right debate to have. The fact is it's here.

And how can you leverage it for whatever purpose you have? And so once they see what's possible, it's impossible to come back from that. And so it's just been continue to stack under the growth. So really quick sprint.

We had 31 MSPs and over 100 users in about three months. Then we went to IT Nation, stirred the pot some more. Oh, yeah.

And then from IT Nation, investors saw what we were doing. Those conversations started. We went into stealth mode.

We closed on our seed round. We're launching at PAX 8, basically like the first primetime version of the product. We accelerated a roadmap by, I don't know, two years, basically, in three months' time and are launching that product here and looking for MSPs who could feel comfortable in a room having this conversation with me that also want to solve their business challenges using CYFT as a platform to do that.

All right. Well, Jeff, we are going to have to have more conversations. I think you would be a great fit for a show that I'm putting on later talking about MSP vendor etiquette.

Oh, yeah. Let's do that. It sounds like your little email thing falls into that category.

All right. So let's not forget CYFT. CYFT.AI, right? CYFT.AI, yeah.

And automation platform to help MSPs. And it sounds like it's something we've needed, and you are filling that niche for us. So thank you very much.

Absolutely. And thank you for having me. You've got a booth here? We do.

Booth 123. Did I? Do you have swag? We don't have swag, but we do have cash. That's probably why I just… So come by today.

We'll have a key. Basically, it's a drawing. There's three plexiglass boxes of cash.

That represents the amount of basically margin and efficiency that you get back either in a day, in a month, or a quarter. And then tomorrow, you'll have like an unlocking event where you can… Somebody, whoever has the key, gets the cash. Gets the cash.

All right. And there's like maybe, I forget what it is. It's like 10, 3, and 1. Maybe it's 20.

20, 5, and 1. Something like that. So it's not just like a single winner. But, yeah, you've got to be present to win because you're literally going to take the key and try to unlock the padlock.

I think the grand prize is like $3,500. So it's not like, you know… All right. That's a good swag substitute.

Yeah, exactly. All right. Great.

Jeff, again, thank you. I'll let you get back to it because I know vendor time is coming up here soon. Yeah.

And enjoy yourself here at Pax8 Beyond. Yeah. Thank you very much, Mark.

All right, folks. That's going to do it. We'll be back with, yes, more interviews here on day one at Pax8 Beyond.

See you soon. Holla. Holla.