Dawn Sizer’s Tips for MSP Growth (EP 921)

Hello friends, Uncle Marv here with another episode of the IT Business Podcast coming at you from ASCII Edge. Actually, it's the final meeting of the year for the ASCII group. It is the ASCII Cup. 

We are in the city of Philadelphia and I'm here with a Pennsylvania resident, somebody who I call a friend. And if it weren't for the fact that it was so cold, I may have ventured out and done some things with this person. But I'm talking about a fun friend of the show, Dawn Sizer, co-founder and CEO of Third Element Consulting. 

Hello, hello. Hello, how are you? Well, apparently not as cold as you are, but then again, I'm not Florida man, so it's a little bit different. However, I did find out the fun fact from you this morning was that the real feel on the temperature was 41 degrees and the poor little iguanas fall out the trees at 45. 

Yes. So had the iguanas been in Pennsylvania, it would have been raining iguanas. Yes, it would have been. 

People just don't understand. Now, what's funny is everybody understands the heat side of Florida. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

With the humidity. Yeah. But they didn't understand the cold side. 

Yeah. You know, because Florida, it can be in the 60s and yeah, that's cold for Florida. A lot of people would be wearing sweaters and stuff, but it's not frigid. 

No, it's not. And to be fair, like I've been down in, you know, both November as well as like early February and stuff. And it's, it gets chilly in the evening kind of thing. 

Yeah. But that, that's our, that's our winter. Yeah. 

When I say chilly, it's like, I'm going to throw a fleece on. It's not like where I am and I have to put a hat on. Chilly is, we don't need the AC right now. 

Yeah. That's the best way to describe it. So, all right, Dawn. 

So you made the trek over here. So how far away are you again? We're about two hours via the turnpike. So it was a little white knuckle-y this morning, just from the standpoint of it's raining and people still want to do 75 miles an hour on the turnpike and you know, everybody was hydroplaning a little bit. 

Nice. Yeah, it was fun. Nice. 

Now that sounds very similar to Florida. Well, I mean, I felt like I was playing Mario Kart. Yeah. 

How big is your vehicle? Like Mario Kart. You don't want to have the big escalating SUV? No, no, no. Dave drives the Defender. 

I have a little XC40 Volvo actually. So it's a very, it's a very nimble car. Wow, look at you, you're a little quaint. 

What's the right word I'm looking for? Petite car for a petite gal. It fits me fine. It fits me fine. 

Is it the convertible? No, no, no, no. So this is the SUV. So it's the little compact SUV. 

Oh, it's the mini SUV. It is, but it's... Or the crossover. Kind of. 

I mean, it's... Smaller than the crossover? Yeah, no, actually it's a little bit bigger. Oh, okay. Crazily, it's kind of like a Tardis where it's bigger on the inside. 

You look at it and you're like, oh, it seems like it's going to be really small. And you get in there and you're like, hey, there's a lot more room in here than I thought. Nice. 

Okay. Yeah. Interesting. 

So you made the trek over and you're not on the schedule. Interesting. I know. 

It's amazing. I have no responsibilities here. Wow. 

So what are you going to do? Just hang out here? I mean... Literally, I came to see you. I came to see Alicia and I figured we were just going to have a good time tonight. That's really it. 

Yes, tonight is the ASCII Cup. You're staying for that? Right. Yeah, I am. 

I'm staying tonight. So no, I think it's, I think this is a great way and ASCII has done this beautifully and that, you know, everybody's together for the whole year and it's like the same vendors the entire time through. And so it's a great way to kind of like put a bow around the year. 

Yes. And it's great. I've done this, the ASCII Cup a couple of times now and it's probably one of my favorite, favorite little parties at the end of the conference season.

Yeah. So I want to get more into ASCII for a little bit, but just for the sake of folks who may be listening for the first time, even though I've said you're a regular in the show, I'm getting new, you know, new listeners. They don't know you. 

So first let's talk about Third Element Consulting. The way that I'd like to describe your company is you are actually a service-first mindset type of company. Did I get that right? We are definitely a service-first and I would say we are a security-first as well. 

And we've always been that way. In fact, we started out as a subsidiary of a physical security company doing IT security. So we did that for a year to make a clean break from a previous employer. 

And then after that we incorporated and we've been an MSP from the very beginning. We just didn't know what an MSP was at the time. I don't even think that was a word for a while, but we've always been on that like all-you-can-eat contract kind of thing.

Projects are outside of that purview. But other than that, yeah, we are 100% service-first. Right. 

You mentioned all-you-can-eat. So if I remember correctly, no hidden cost ever? We like to think so. I think let's be fair in all of that. 

Everybody has a misconception about what is and isn't covered until you put out the service catalog. You say all-you-can-eat. Isn't that everything? If it's on the service catalog, yes. 

And covered in the contract, yes. Yeah. I just had a discussion with another client. 

They're on a remote plan. Yeah. And they were like, well, are you going to charge us every time you come out? I said, yeah, because you're paying for remote as part of the plan. 

Anything outside of that, meaning if I have to leave my office to come see you, that's extra. Exactly. And we do the same type thing. 

We do have a remote only for people that either aren't close or just really don't need a ton of on-site support. And what we have found is that it's easy for people to say, you know what, I'm usually a remote, but this year we're going to have a whole bunch of changes and things along those lines. Can we upgrade to the on-site for this year and then switch back? Switch back. 

Yeah, absolutely. We like to be flexible with our clients. If it makes sense for you, let's do that.

Nice. Sweet. So let me ask this. 

Any fun projects you can talk about that you've done recently? Oh my gosh. We've done a couple. Speaking of, before you get started, one of your employees came up to me earlier and asked me, hey, did you help such and such client in Florida? And I did not recognize the name.

Oh yeah, yeah. And then he's like, yeah, it was a move with a third MLA consulting. I'm like, oh, yeah, the North Miami client.

Yeah, and you're still hating on me for that. The elevator problem was not my fault. It was a fun move. 

I did a subcontracting gig for them. Couldn't get in the building. First of all, couldn't call the company. 

And then that was actually the easy part. The hard part was that it was an ISP move with no ISP service. That was such a cluster. 

And the kicker of it was, it wasn't even the client's fault. It literally was the ISP. Because typically it's like a client issue, but in this case, it wasn't.

But getting back to your original question, what are we doing? What's fun? I mean, obviously, I think we've all done the Windows 10 thing. That's done at this point. Really completely done? For us, I think we have one that's an up in the air kind of thing. 

Are we replacing it? Are we killing it? What are we doing with this thing? So we have a couple of little things like that. But other than that, yeah, that went a lot more smoothly than we thought. In fact, the gentleman that came over actually handled most of that. 

We took him off regular desk work and some other stuff. And he just ran the project, which was wild. So right now we've got a couple of little programming gigs that we're working on, which I think is exciting for everybody. 

So we have some folks that are really into the programming side of it, some people that are into the UI part of it. So what does the user see? What does that look like? So I think that's an interesting thing. As far as that goes, we've got some AI projects going on, which I didn't think were going to be a thing, but here we are. 

And I actually... Well, in fairness, you did start touting AI several months ago with all the ways you were using it in your company. That's fair. So it only had to extend out to clients, right? It did. 

And we've had some co-pilot stuff going on, and now it's more than co-pilot at this point. So we're looking at agentic. We're looking at what can agents do? What does that look like? We're actually adjusting our CRM here towards the end of the year, which I think is going to be really interesting. 

And that's going to put AI into our CRM and how our phones work and how some other things go too. So your CRM is... Can you say it? Actually, we switched over to... Well, we're in the process of switching over to go high level. Really? Yes. 

When did that happen? Well, strangely, Nigel Moore and I had a conversation at ScaleCon. Nigel Moore from the tech tribe? From the tech tribe, exactly. And he's like, have you seen Growably? You should look at this. 

And of course, he did the hand gesture. And I was like, oh, okay. So tell me more.

And actually, it didn't go exactly like that. I was like, hey, what are the restrictions around Growably? What does that look like for your users? Blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, no, there actually aren't any restrictions. 

And I'm like, great. Where do I sign? So I did that and got in there and poked around a little bit. So for those of you that don't have a CRM yet and haven't thought about it, but you either have a subscription to tech tribe or you are working with MSP camp or something like that, and Tahir is probably going to murder me for this, but it looks like... I've seen his office, so he can't. 

That's true. Long story short, they are also coming out with a version of go high level. And it is also very, very nice. 

And between the two of them, you can't pick a bad partner between the two of them. They're both phenomenal. Okay. 

So we'll have to have a more conversation off the air about that. Oh, a hundred percent. It's a big change. 

It is. Yeah. So we're on Insightly right now, coming from HubSpot previously. 

And I actually really like the way it looks in comparison and how easy it is to set up and some of the things that it does. So yeah. All right. 

Very nice. Let me ask you this question that I'm sure you're not prepared for, but what does it mean to have been chosen as the Channel Pro MSP Leadership Award for 2025? I'm pretty sure they just like threw a name into a hat. One name? One name. 

Honestly, it was very humbling. Yeah. I was not expecting it at all. 

And I don't know that it means anything per se, but it was really an honor actually to be chosen for something like that because it felt kind of like an achievement award situation. And I don't know that I think about any of that on the daily, right? Well, you might because you have so many. But not in that way. 

Okay. Not in that way. And I think we started out the conversation with being service first, right? And I think you and I have had the conversation, if you ever need anything, give me a call. 

And you have. And you've done the same thing for me. I've called you up when I had a question. 

I was just like, okay, I don't want to be stupid, but just help me walk through this. And I think that's something that the really good MSPs and the really good MSP leaders out there, that's something that they do for each other. That's something that they do for the community.

It's something that they do on the regular and they don't think about it all that much. It's just the part of who we are and what should be happening in this community because it's a hard business. It's a hard business. 

Yeah. I think some of the best awards that you can get are the ones that you're not expecting. The ones where people recognize you for doing stuff that you don't know that you're being watched. 

You don't know that people are paying attention. I think that's the best. I mean, you would totally win my best friend award.

Well, if there was such a thing. Well, I can make it happen. Can I get a plaque for my wall? Yes.

You laugh about that, but then you're going to laugh and be like, oh, she actually sent me one. I will believe that when I see you travel south of Orlando. I heard the Florida stops Orlando. 

It's there. Okay. Yeah. 

I'll take you. Nice stuff happening down there. That's true. 

That's true. You can go party in Miami. No, I'm not going to party in Miami because you can't afford it.

I'm old. I don't want, this is not my scene. Listen, you were the way you were dancing last year at the ASCII cup. 

That's not old. I can dance. I can dance. 

Fun fact. There you go. There we go. 

All right. So let's do one little thing where we acknowledge that we're at ASCII. Yes. 

You have been a member. So I want to do two things. One, can you tell me what's probably the number one thing you get out of being an ASCII member? Literally this sitting here. 

I think that the people that you meet along the way, right, I think is the biggest thing. To the credit of both Alan, but also of Alicia, they have made a women's network inside of ASCII and it is a great way to meet other people that do what we do and kind of hash through some of the issues that we face. And it's not just, oh, we're women. 

We face different problems. It's the, I'm dealing with this in my business or man hiring is just awful. So it's not, it's the same issues that everybody else has, but I think it's just a nice space to unwind with some folks that aren't the same that we see everywhere else. 

Well, and the openness and willingness to share because you're not afraid of, you know, if I give you this information, how are you going to use it against me? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. 

Very nice. I've been asking everyone also that with the passing of Alan Weinberger, the founder CEO, do you have any fond memories of Alan that speak to you outside of what he's done with ASCII or stuff? What's your best memory of Alan? I think one of the biggest things that I've noticed about Alan, even from the very first time that I met him, is he remembered my name. Like the next year I was a nobody. 

He didn't need to know who I was, but he remembered my name. And then we had additional conversations and he always knew who I was. And I heard that from multiple people that, I mean, how many members does ASCII have? Like gobs, I'm sure. 

1500 is the official number, but I think it's more. Yeah, I think it is more too. And to know 1500 names, that's a lot. 

Yeah. And to know who people are and just be able to say, Hey, how are you doing? And walk up to you and ask you about your business and genuinely care about the answer. Because everybody says, Oh, hey, how you doing? And you're like, Yeah, we're good. 

But he genuinely cared about it too. And I think there's something to be said for that. So that's, I think that's one of the fun things. 

But also, he thought outside the box a lot. I mean, put together a deal with Amazon, I wouldn't have thought to do that. As you know, a community of MSPs, like, what's in it for Amazon? I'm not sure there's a whole lot in it for Amazon. 

But for the MSP, there's a lot in it. Well, it was huge, because in a lot of ways, we would consider Amazon as a competitor to our distributors. And to be able to, to utilize that, and now to be able to, you know, get a little bit of a discount, right, that we could tell the customer No, don't you order it, we'll order it. 

Yeah. So that helps. Very nice. 

All right. What's on the horizon for you guys? Anything big coming up? I know it's the end of the year. There is, I mean, I'll be at IT Nation, we're running pre day there. 

So we've got a really cool scenario where we're doing business strategy, and applying that into cybersecurity. So it's me and Larry Garcia from Stready's, we're talking business operating system a little bit. And then Bob Miller and Matt Lee, tagging in on the back half of that, to do capture the flag and IR, and then we're going to bring it all together on how the vision of your business has to include both, you know, the operational side of things, but also the cyber side to reduce liability and make sure that you are, you know, holistically, looking at the best way to reduce the liability for your business. 

This is one session at IT Nation. This is one session at IT Nation. It's on Wednesday, from 12, or 1230 to four. 

Oh, that's a long session. It's a long session is a workshop. It is a full on workshop. 

So yeah, it should be really, really good. I wish I had known that I would have blocked that time out. I got an interview scheduled. 

I can't see it. Well, that was silly. Well, listen, listen, if you were my best friend, you would have told me you were going to IT Nation. 

I did tell you I was going to IT Nation. When? Last time I saw you. I think that must have come right after. 

There's nothing south of Orlando. So I must have stopped listing. That's probably true. 

You are still on our list, though. So we need to find a date. Okay, we will do that. 

But I will be at IT Nation. So I'll probably that's a much bigger event. So I'll probably see you in passing. 

I have no responsibilities past Wednesday. Really? Really? I'm liking this whole like no responsibilities past a certain point. It's amazing. 

Well, you have been going, you know, nonstop for a couple of years. So yeah. And not just event wise, your business has been doing some stuff. 

I'm not going to say it. But you know, personally, you guys have been doing some stuff. So a lot of boxes involved. 

Well, there's more stuff coming. So yeah, we're going to announce some of that on Wednesday. Okay, I will be more than happy to talk about it while I'm there, too. 

Okay, we'll be looking forward to that. Grab a Mr. Henry Timm and we'll even get the exclusive. I gotta get in there. 

I gotta get that. So all right, well, Dawn Sizer, Third Element Consulting, thank you for stopping by. And I feel special now. 

Oh, stop. It's always a pleasure. Actually, I should say something more like my podcasting journey is complete. 

You are so full of it. Dawn Sizer, everyone, if you if you need her, one of the favorites here on the show, and one of my favorite people to hang with. Remember, it's only the face that looks angry. 

I'm not I swear. I'm really nice in person. I've just got the face that RBF doesn't sit well.

I think yeah, I'm going to let that go. That's it. I do it folks here from ASCII Edge in Philadelphia. 

Check out Dawn Sizer, folks. You'll want to follow her. Her company is doing great things. 

And if I were going to be a big MSP, I'd want to be just like them. We'll see you soon. Holla.