00:19 - Uncle Marv (Host)
Hello friends, Uncle Marv here with another episode of the IT Business Podcast. The show for IT Professionals, throughout the world, to help you run your business, support your clients, better, smarter and faster. We are here with a very special edition of the IT Business Podcast, and I know you guys hear me say that all the time and sometimes I have to remind you why each episode is different. This one in particular because it is my first with the group from ASCII that I've talked about so much over the years. If you haven't heard of it yet, you should know. By now ASCII is celebrating 40 years, founded in 1984, they are still here, still going strong as a resource for MSPs and IT professionals, and we're going to chat about that and see how things are going for them. So I have with me a star-studded crew. I have the man, the myth, the legend, jerry Koutavas. Jerry, how are you? 

01:16 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
Good Marvin, thanks for having us, I really appreciate it. All right. 

01:20 - Uncle Marv (Host)
Thanks for being here, and I have the lovely Jessie Devine in the house. Jessie, how are you doing? 

01:26 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
I'm great, I'm so excited to be here. 

01:28 - Uncle Marv (Host)
Thank you. Okay, and we have an MSP that has been in the group much longer than I and can give a much better perspective on how ASCII has been over the years Sue Trahant from LAN Computers. Sue, how are you? 

01:47 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
Well, how are you all doing? 

01:48 - Uncle Marv (Host)
We're doing pretty good. 

01:49 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
It's an honor to be here and wish ASCII 40 years of success. 

01:53 - Uncle Marv (Host)
Great, great, great. So let me go ahead and just ask the general question, jerry. What has it meant so far? I mean we're into March. 

02:15 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
You guys waited a long time to get me on the show here to talk about this, but here we are. It's been a few months in the year. How has it been? What have you heard from the field? And 40 years is nothing to sneeze at. 

02:26
Obviously, a lot of things happened in our industry and you know, if you step back, it's pretty amazing that what our industry has accomplished in a sense and I'm not, you know, asking aside, I'm just talking about in general, what we have done in terms of the services we offer and how we approach business with the clients that we serve. 

02:48
So, you know, stepping asking into that sort of story, you know it's kind of I guess we're proud in some sense in terms of us not resting on our laurels in terms of all these sort of pivots that our industry had to do over the years. 

03:06
But yeah, I mean just talking to our members and it's become sort of like this very close knit network of businesses that we've got to know over the years where it's not sort of like oh, Mr. Jacobs, it's nice to see you again. 

03:23
It's like Jim, come here, let me give you a hug, you know, because we've been through sort of all these struggles with them. 

03:30
So if you look at where things went from simply selling computers to you know, obviously maintaining them, and then obviously automating that maintenance and expanding on how many clients you can manage as an MSP, and who knows where things are going to go in the future that whole journey it was not an easy one, and so there's this sort of like this camaraderie that you feel over the years where we're all kind of have this scar tissue that we just kind of built up, that we just kind of built up dealing with vendors that changed their channel strategies and pulled the rugs out from under us on authorizations or distribution, having issues and everything in between. But we're still surviving and so I just think it's a great story for our industry and I'm just glad to be a part of it. I'm just really happy to be here and I'm still very excited about where the industry is going to go and how ASCII is going to help lead the way. 

04:27 - Uncle Marv (Host)
Well, I want to say thank you for your time in ASCII. You've been there as long as I've been a member and, yes, it has been a fantastic journey and almost a side-by-side journey, which I think is one of the best attributes of the group. Now, Jessie, I'm going to say this in a way that I want you to be comfortable with. 

04:47 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
I'm not offended, don't worry. 

04:50 - Uncle Marv (Host)
In terms of years of service, you're one of the babies of the group, new to the organization, so tell me it's just been a few years. I think you started during COVID, right. 

05:00 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
Yeah, so I've been in the channel since 2014,. Specifically in the channel. So I've seen ASCII. I was part of ASCII as on the vendor side of things 10 years ago. So I've been a part of the ASCII community for 10 out of the 40. So I've it's been three and a half years and I was in it during that crazy time of COVID and it's been an amazing. I'm so glad that I got to join during that time because you know what, with chaos comes a lot of great opportunity, and I think that ASCII has shown how much they really have the MSPs back during that time. That was a crazy tumultuous time of pain but growth for a lot of these MSPs. So it's been really a privilege for me to join during that time. 

05:56
But I will say 10 years ago ASCII was a little bit different, you know, and so it's been really cool to see from both perspectives and I'm so glad to be a part of the 40th. I definitely wasn't there for the 30 years of amazing contributions that ASCII's made, but it's been nice to hear the stories. I've known the members for 10 years myself. I've been a part of all of the ASCII events during those times. So seeing the growth, seeing the change has been really nice. And one thing I will say is, even though we're 40 years old and all the technologies and things have changed over time, one thing is always constant is that ASCII has always had the MSPs back and I think that's always been the North Star. So as long as we've always kind of do that and have that as our mission and our goals, we're always going to be, you know, here for a long time. So that's kind of my feeling of our 40th. It's a time of celebration and growth and excitement for our group. 

06:56 - Uncle Marv (Host)
So, of course, as you said that, I just had this thought in my head of General Chang from Star Trek VI, I am as constant as the Northern Star Can't do that. And sue, let's get to you from the MSP perspective Now. I've been around in this industry 27 years. I've been in part of ASCII, maybe 10. I don't know the exact number. Sorry, jerry, for not knowing, but sue, let me first ask you how long have you been involved with ASCII? 

07:31 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
Well, I've been away of 22 or 23 years. I want to say now, time goes by fast guys, so just you know, in the blink of an eye it's 20 years, 30 years, 40 years. But we were so excited to find ASCII. What a game changer it was in the beginning for us. There truly was a difference for us. Just the boot camps, going and meeting vendors and seeing the many opportunities that we didn't even know existed. Without ASCII, we would never have, you know, were able to make these connections with everybody and it's been amazing. It's been an amazing journey. It really has. 

08:11 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right Now. Can you remember back when you first joined? What was it that actually intrigued you and pulled you to the group? 

08:22 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
It was just the dedication to, right from the onset of partnering with them, how involved you were, how involved they were with our success and any questions we had, you know. You just pick up the phone and they answer you. I mean, it's been like anybody else when you first start, you don't know what questions you want to ask, you don't really have a direction. You think you do until you see all these things that are available to you to shape what you're really going to become in the future, and that's what they've helped us do. 

08:55 - Uncle Marv (Host)
So, yeah, all right, we're very happy now to give listeners a perspective of you and your company. Can you tell us a little bit about who your company is, how big it is, what you guys do and that sort of thing? 

09:09 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
We are a family-owned company. We started back in 1992. Our background was really electronic distribution and my husband was an engineer at Raytheon and we decided to combine our two companies and become Land Computer and since then we have been serving the greater Boston area for over 30 years. So we do all industries. We only do business-to-business solutions as well as the MSBs, and it's grown quite nicely. Thank you All right. 

09:46 - Uncle Marv (Host)
So does that mean that if I attend the ASCII Edge in Boston, we'll see you there? 

09:52 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
You always do. 

09:53 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right, I'm always available. 

09:54 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
We always try to go. We do. We'll be there. 

09:58 - Uncle Marv (Host)
We'll be there, all right. So, Jessie, because I did that with Sue, let me go back to you and can you tell the listeners exactly what your position is there at Asking? What do you do? 

10:09 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
Yes, so I'm the VP of channel development at Asking, so my role is really pretty simple. It's created key strategic partnerships with the vendor community and see how they will fit into our community in helping serve our MSPs. 

10:24 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right, and Jerry, I mean we see you as the face of ASCII, but no, it's okay, you know, I guess I'll just explain. 

10:33 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
It is that one I got to bring in the right people. So obviously Jessie is one part of that equation. But just looking at sort of the overall vision of the company strategically where we should be going, and also to just understanding a bit more on the trends of where the market's going to take the group and obviously you know I won't go down too much in the weeds. We'll talk about it maybe later, Marvin, but there is another pivot coming and so no one's really talking about it and I just feel that we're going to prepare our group just like we have been with all the other pivots we've done over the years. But this one's going to be a big one. But all that aside is just really kind of taking a step back and looking at what we should be doing and how we should be listening to our members so they can help us build the best strategy for them as well as us providing some input to reinforce that whole mission of listen. We got the backs of the MSPs. Let's move forward together. 

11:27 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right. Well, before we talk about pivots, let's take a look back. So can you point to maybe a major milestone or achievement that really stands out over the last 40 years, or at least your time there? 

11:46 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
the last 40 years, or at least your time there. Yeah, it's, it's there's. I got so many stories to tell you and I'll just throw. I'll throw a couple away and one's really like a no brainer, but I'll do the no brainer first. 

11:58
And so we our location in Bethesda, Maryland. We had, you know, a nice conference room and we would have vendors come in from time to time, talk about sort of like things that they feel is a fit for the group, and we would have to evaluate it and talk to the members about it and all that fun stuff. So, lo and behold, Gerald Blackie comes in. Nobody knows this guy from Adam. He sits down with us and says, look, this is the technology we have, this is what it's going to do for your members, this is what it's going to do for the industry. It was definitely an aha moment, okay, in terms of MSPs using this to basically, you know, stop just running around in the car and fixing this and fixing that and simply automate that whole process as an MSP. So, if those of us who don't know, Gerald Blackie was the one person that founded Kaseya whole process as an MSP. So if those of us don't know, Gerald Blackie was the one person that founded Kaseya who is still around today, and I think that it was one thing to basically have an early introduction to that company that most people weren't aware of and getting our members in tune to this new model, but more importantly, because at that particular time Kaseya had a lock pretty much on the market. Competition wasn't even existent at that point for our space at least, Maybe at the enterprise level, but for our space it wasn't. So Kaseya knew this. So what they did was there was a premium on the number of seats you had to purchase to get into this sort of environment, and obviously we're dealing with a lot of different types of VARs at the time. So you had small VARs, larger VARs and what have you. Well, they were basically pricing out, or it would be very painful for a small VAR to get onto this model to become an MSP, because Kasei knew that they had something. So we negotiated something with them where our members didn't have that particular seat license requirement and so more smaller VARs at that particular point were able to convert their VAR model to an MSP point, were able to convert their VAR model to an MSP, and I think that really helped tremendously those businesses that we were able to pull this off for. So that's one piece of history that I think that was important for us to secure for the group, our community. 

14:22
The second one is a little bit off. I just want to throw you guys a curveball. It's a little different. This is sort of like how Alan and I were thinking about stuff. Alan, I know he's not on the call, but he is always thinking about how to lift the industry up. He really wants to drive leads back to the industry. He just finds so many different ways to creatively think about that. 

14:48
And so we're in his office and we're talking about Comdex, which at the time was the end-all, be-all event. I mean, Sue, I don't know how many times you've been to Comdex, but that was the biggest event that everybody went to in our industry and you know they had two floor booths and it was really crazy. But over time that particular event started to degrade and we don't know why that was the case. I don't know if it changed ownerships or what have you, but it was sliding down and Al and I were talking about this and like, look, this is like the marquee event of our industry and they don't even have people like our community represented to talk about how they approach solving business problems. It just felt like you know why this the case is. So Alan and I are in his office. Alan, I bet you, I bet you let's call up the producer of the event and pitch them this idea that we'll bring experts from our community to teach their audience, basically, best practices for certain vertical solutions. So we looked at each other and this is not. We got on the phone, like either that day or the next day, Within two days, we had a deal. We had more, I guess, floor space than Microsoft at Comdex, Really Based on that deal and that amounted to providing members of our community their due respect to basically speak to their audience on certain solutions, certain vertical opportunities and market opportunities and what have you. So it was crazy. 

16:36
Unfortunately, that was like the last Comdex. They were just too far gone. But we at least and again going back to what Al and I look at we at least got the attention our members deserve and our industry deserves, and it's unfortunate we don't do more of this in terms of the industry overall. But that was a little curveball for you, Marvin, it was great to see and we definitely generated a lot of leads, a lot of attention for the members that were involved. I think we have probably about I'm looking back at the picture in my mind probably 20 members that were involved and they had an ASCII expert area with like a whiteboard and stage, and if you were in the health care industry, there was a session on health care, and if you were manufacturing, there was a session on manufacturing. I mean, it was, it was pretty wild but um, but yeah, those are just a couple of key things. 

17:33 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right, and I was going to ask you about the timeframe of that and you kind of gave a hint that it was at the end, which would have been around 2005,. I believe was the last Comdex. 

17:42 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
I believe. So, yeah, yeah, it was, yeah it was something, and I don't know so, and so, just going back, so if you think about asking for the people that are not asking members, I know that communities, this stuff is not on the top of your, your docket, like, if you're looking at your day to day, you don't have on your number one thing like, oh, I got to join a community. That's like not there. It's just like this side thing that maybe someone will tell you about ASCII or a community and what have you. But you have to realize this is that in your day to day, as chaotic as it is, there's people thinking about how to make your life better, and that's what ASCII does. How can we make your life better? How can we give you more attention? How can we generate leads to you? How can we actually provide you with a service to lower your costs? So it's a powerful thing when people accept that they can't do it all. And then you know, off of what Sue was saying, we used to do boot camps. The biggest thing that I would see is this connection and large discussion about the industry taking place, that it just it wows me to see how much people provide in terms of intelligence, even in such a competitive environment. And I'll just leave one thing and then I'll be quiet because I don't want to. I know Jessie and Sue probably wonder like, okay, I'm going to get a coffee, so one thing and then I'll let you go. 

19:22
Martin, is that one of our events? We basically came up with the idea that, look, we have to actually get an expert in a certain area and have them speak to the rest of the members on how they broke into that market Legal health care, education, what have you? So we go OK, this, this is our content strategy. So then we started taking that story to our sponsors and saying, look, this is what our content strategy is. 

19:54
And you don't know how many times I've heard from the vendor community like they're never going to do that. What are you doing? Like no one's going to do that. But they don't understand ASCII, they don't understand this sort of like this, this larger mission, where once you're in the community, it's like you not only have support of us, but you also have support of now over 1400 MSPs across the country that are willing to help you, share information and just drive everyone's success, because we don't look at this as sort of like this competitive thing. It's like this this is just a larger mission here, so I'll stop there and I appreciate you letting me ramble here. 

20:33 - Uncle Marv (Host)
Well, you know, jerry, we got to let you ramble because that's what you do. But I do want to take a lot of what you said because, coming from the ASCII side and the high level, you know a lot of what you said because, coming from the ASCII side and the high level, you know. Look at what you guys want to do from a technical standpoint, standpoint, from an MSP, finding a community that takes off several boxes. Because what happens, I think, is a lot of people look at ASCII and like, oh well, they'll help us get discounts at vendors. Well, that's just one thing ASCII does. Oh well, they do events across the nation. Okay, that's just another thing they do. Oh, they can help us get insurance rates. They can help us get better UPS shipping rates. There's all these things that ASCII can do. 

21:27
And I think once people see that, and you throw in the fact that, oh, the community members share with each other, I mean we don't hang up the phone when we find out that it's another MSP calling. So that's what I think has been fantastic over the years. So, jessie, before I get back to you, let me ask Sue first. Sue, can you kind of list off the specific things that you're getting from ASCII. Is it the discounts? Is it the community? 

21:48 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
We've pretty much embraced everything they've had to offer. To be honest with you, if I don't know something, I will go on their website, whether it be a legal form, something I might not think I needed, but all of a sudden I do and I have to find it fast. And if I have a question on a product I can't obtain, like you said, I can go out on the farm and ask hey, anybody can help you with this project? And it's amazing. I don't know how many members, jerry, now you have on the ASCII farm, but we've never been disappointed as far as our vendors because of ASCII. Um, we've had the same vendors for years. 

22:28
Now, once you form a relationship during these boot camps or the or any of their shows that they have, um, we found it to be an amazing experience. I mean we really can call and they know who you are, and that, in this day and age, it's that's a wonderful thing. I mean we're really can call and they know who you are, and in this day and age, that's a wonderful thing. I mean we're not a big, big company, but we do a lot of volume and it's nice to know you can pick up the phone and get the help you need, whether it be from our vendors or from ASCII or from our groups. So, yeah, it's been good. 

23:00 - Uncle Marv (Host)
And it's not just the discounts. If there are problems with the vendor, ASCII will go to bat for us on our behalf. 

23:08 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
ASCII has gone to bat for us Really. I can assure you it's worked out quite nicely for us Anything that you can share. 

23:15
Yeah, I could tell you a story. We had a large school order and we had quoted on some laptops. It was a good order and we were notified that the vendor couldn't supply them and anything that was available was way over our cost. So I did reach out and Alan happened to be able to source even a better laptop for the school and we had it within two days for the same price. So they saved the day, as we say. 

23:47 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
Nice. 

23:48 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
And it made quite an impression on our customers as well, and we still have had them for 30 years. So those things matter, they do. 

23:57 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right, so you guys are letting Alan still work the phones and stuff. Huh. 

24:03 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
Well, that was probably 25 years ago, okay, yeah, I don't know how much he's on the phone anymore, but yeah. 

24:10 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right. So, jessie, you heard us ramble off some of the benefits that asking members get. I know that when Sue mentioned the forum, a big thing that you do in the forum is list when there are new opportunities and things of that nature. So for people that maybe are listening, that are not ASCII members and they're not active in that form what are some of the things that we can find as benefits? 

24:35 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
Let me get the Rolodex thing. So we have a lot and I just want to kind of say something off of what Sue said. Just regarding Alan, the culture about ASCII comes from the top down. So Alan, going and doing that for you, that's his. You know he really cares and when you know people talk about ASCII, it's just good people and the culture of that comes from the top and trickles all the way to the, to everybody there. So I mean, the care is there and I think that's kind of the differentiator with ASCII, for sure. 

25:07
But with regards to programs and we have over 70 programs, maybe much more than that, honestly, I haven't really counted as of late but we have a ton of benefits, and not just specific to MSPs, they're, all you know, business owner programs as well. So sales tax guides, legal connections, insurance, cyber insurance. We have benefits with new PSAs like Super Ops and all the various vendors out there which are exclusive to ASCII. So unless you're a member, you really can't get that benefit. So that's one piece of the pie, of course, but that relationship piece is what makes it kind of even better. The dollars sure, they're important, but if you know that they're working with ASCII, that means ASCII has that true connection with that company. 

25:56
If there's a problem, we can address it. There have been vendors. Nobody's perfect. Sometimes there are problems. We can address it with the right people 've had CEOs and executives respond to things that don't necessarily require that, but that happens because of the relationships we have. So that's super important. But, um, just so many benefits I mean aside even from the vendor benefits we have, um, you know, ascii spark, which is our peer accountability group, and that's for any ASCII member that wants to really take it to the next level. So we have groups, you know, across North America, non-competing regions of the United States and Canada coming together opening their books and trying to elevate themselves. So that's one huge piece of the pie as well. That's a great benefit that not a lot of people know about. So, anyway, I can go on for days about the benefits. 

26:51 - Uncle Marv (Host)
I wanted you to list all 65-plus programs that are on the website. Right now I can start. 

26:56 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
Do we have some time? 

26:59 - Uncle Marv (Host)
So for those facts we'll have all the links in the show notes. But specifically ASCII.com A-S-C-I-I If you're wondering how you spell ASCII, that's it there. But once you join, obviously you can go to the website, as everyone has mentioned, look at all the programs, look at the benefits and actually, between the forum and the website, if you need help boots on the ground, you know, in another city, another state, ascii can help you do that and lots of people are ready and willing to step up and help and make sure they do a good job, because you know what ASCII is like family. So that's how it goes, jerry. Let me go back and talk about one point. We've mentioned a lot about vendor discounts, blah, blah, blah, the roadshows, and we know that we have vendors that sponsor that and stuff. But one of the things that has made ASCII different is that you guys stay vendor neutral. So I want to ask a two-part question One, how do you stay vendor neutral? And two, what has been the? How do you stay vendor neutral? 

28:10 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
And two, what has been the biggest benefit of being vendor neutral? Well, I think that the one key thing is there is more of a trust that you see, when we start communicating to the membership regarding offers or arrangements and what have you. And also, too, we don't exclusively lock horns in with, like one particular category, one vendor and that's the only solution that's out there. We understand that everybody has to make their own decisions on technology, so we just kind of stayed with that stance and it's helped us. And don't get me wrong, vendors come to us and go look, we want the exclusive, we want to buy the entire category and we just simply get. We can't do that. It's just that it doesn't make sense for us, regardless of the money that might be put in front of our eyes, it just doesn't. The other big thing I can tell you is we prune, ok, we've done a better job of this over the years, but really have taken sort of the shears out. If, if we see a vendor that we think every vendor we actually work with we have to vet, ok, and we essentially look at that information and we bring the MSPs into the conversation and then we assess everything. So, ok, this is good, we're going to roll it out. 

29:30
If we get any inkling that there's funny business and that's the best way to put it either with their strategy or long term view of the channel or what have you, we will eliminate that program without even thinking. And I can tell you that it is again talking about like our industry having the rug pulled out from under you Don't think it hasn't happened to us as well? Okay, so we are very cautious. If we start smelling that something's wrong in Bismarck, we will make adjustments very quickly, and Jessie and I both know about this and it's unfortunate. 

30:10
But again, it kind of ties into this thing where we're not lackadaisical about any of this stuff. If we feel that there's a program that has strength, then we're going to actually present it to the community. If we get an inkling that something is wrong, then we're just going to say the program is eliminated, and then eventually the news comes out like, oh, this is why ASCII pulled the program, because they started going after end users, or it was a bait and switch, or you know, put your term to it. It just doesn't smell right. So, yeah, it has helped us over the years, without a doubt, to stay the course and make sure that we're doing what's in the best interest of the community. 

30:52 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right. So I was trying to figure out a nice way to shift gears here. But I'm going to go to Sue and ask her a question because I know that I can get the two ASCII people to talk about how great it is and you know, come join us and stuff. But from a perspective of an MSP that's been with you guys for a very long time, sue, if somebody were to come to you and ask for advice, why, why should I join ASCII? What is that really going to benefit me in where I'm trying to go in the industry? What advice would you give to somebody? 

31:28 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
Well, I've given that advice to many people. Actually, I tell them they're crazy not to go and at least experience going on their website and see what there is to offer. But again, as a smaller company, like I said, we have the buying power. In ASCII Group. We have the peer group. We have all their services and all the things that ASCII does for our community is amazing. The speakers they bring in just to enlighten you at what the possibilities are for the future that you wouldn't even think of. It's just something people should embrace. As far as I'm concerned, I don't know why anybody wouldn't want to join it, to be honest with you. So that is my advice to them and I will stick with that every time they ask. 

32:24
And even if they don't, I offer it. 

32:26 - Uncle Marv (Host)
And it's not a huge cost either. So I know that some people are like well, how much is it? Look for what people spend to go to some conferences. There are conferences for two days that cost as much as an annual ASCII membership. 

32:44
The value that you can get out of that is tremendous because you're going to get the discounts, you're going to get the help, you're going to get the insurance, the other programs and stuff. So that's how you should think of it. If you're spending, you know, $8.95, $10.95, you know, to go to one conference for a couple of days, that's an annual membership at ASCII. 

33:04 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
That'll get you much, much more, and for your whole company, not just for yourself. So you can extend it to your other executives and colleagues, all the way down to the receptionist if you wanted to. So that's another part that people don't even realize. 

33:20 - Uncle Marv (Host)
Jerry, let me go back to a vendor question. I've had this stuck in my head for a little while because I have on here that I wanted to talk about the ASCII Edge and the ASCII Cup. But the first thing I've got to ask is because I will be attending ASCII Cup this year. Last year, of course, came from Michael Crean Solutions. Granted, he did the unthinkable. He did the back-to-back-to-back ASCII Cup win, yeah. So the first question I got to ask is even without them being acquired and joining SonicWall, did you guys put any sort of tweak in there to prevent them from winning it a fourth time? 

34:04 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
We don't break it no, I'm sure if Alper’s listening he's probably like damn it, um, but I, it is what it is. I mean, I know that the vendors love the awards and they always sort of like we're above board, but it comes down to it and it's. I remember it got so competitive, only named the vendor, but it got to the point where I had to pull the vendor over and show them us tallying the votes because it's such a competitive thing and I love the competition. And this wasn't even my idea. Jean, who's no longer with us, jean Alexander, she came up with this idea. I'm like, oh well, words, I don't know about that. And she's like I'm telling you, these vendors are going to compete. 

34:50
But the reason why and I'll just kind of reinforce this, and if you're a vendor and supporting our initiative here over the years, we love you, the industry loves you. We want to obviously work hand in hand, but oftentimes it's the people that educate are the ones that are winning and those companies are providing real thought leadership to the audience. They sure have to sell, obviously. That's all part of the equation, because we want to make sure that MSPs know on the opportunity. But what I've seen over the years is that the companies that are elevated are based their strategy on educate first sell second. 

35:34
And I think that strategy works well, all right. 

35:39 - Uncle Marv (Host)
So you didn't really ask that. Answer that question about you know, is Michael going to be banned from a fourth win? 

35:45 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
Oh no. 

35:45 - Uncle Marv (Host)
He's listening. If they win it again. 

35:47 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
I answered it. We're above board. If they win it, they win it. I mean, I don't have to tell you. 

35:52 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
I'll just add to it too. Honestly, the ASCII Cup is so great because it is the people voting. It is like the People's Choice Awards of the top 10 vendors. 

36:01
So what we do to calculate the top 10 is we tally up all the votes for all of the shows that we go to and then at the end of the year we tally up even if the vendors didn't win awards. Sometimes they tally up enough in other categories even if they didn't win to be top 10. So it's just basically saying congratulating them on being beloved by the MSP community and the year of hard work and dedication that they're putting to towards the, you know, ascii Edge event. So it's a great way to celebrate the year um, but also, you know, commend them for all the work that they're putting into the community and, honestly, it makes them better for MSPs, it pushes them to provide better content because, honestly, content is king when it comes to winning the awards. So we're seeing those who are really putting in that thought leadership, like Jerry said, are really the ones kind of inching towards the top for those top 10 for sure. 

37:00 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right, so we did mention it earlier. I mentioned it to Sue when we were talking about going to Boston, talked about ASCII Cup, but all of this, folks, is based on the ASCII Edge event series that happens all year long. It used to be nine, but last year you guys snuck in a tenth by going to Hawaii, or stuff like that. You've already done two, I believe Costa Mesa, California, Houston, Texas. What's on tap this year for ASCII Edge? 

37:33 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
Yeah, I guess I'll take that one, jess. So we are again going off of the content idea in terms of thought leadership. The vendors are stepping up. We're having sessions on mental health. We're having sessions on mental health; we're having sessions on project management. We have someone there from Microsoft talking about Lighthouse 365. And so we're shaping the content in a way that in a lot of panels, the panel discussions have really been amazing and honestly, sometimes I am so bored of panels on the Atlantic Conference, not these ones. It is very relevant and I'm looking forward to having those that experience in New Jersey that we have next month. 

38:16
But ultimately what we're seeing is that when MSPs come to these events, and especially this year for the Edge events, is that we are preparing them for this pivot that I was kind of alluded to earlier. Marvin and I will try to not ramble and take over like a half an hour, take over like a half an hour, but there is going to be a shift and I think, like any good community, we can't hide from it and unfortunately not enough people are talking about it. But essentially we have to look at helping reestablish the client relationship between our members and their clients, because we've kind of gone from like a high touch model when we started. As a reseller I have come into your store, this is the need I have based on the work I do, and that particular reseller would match you with the right computer, the right speed, the right power. What have you been advancing forward? Well, look, we can do more than just sell you the computer. We can help you. If it breaks down, we'll fix it. 

39:29
Moving forward, and those two shifts were still high touch. 

39:33
But when we hit the MSP model, we started losing touch, as much as we want to believe that we still have touch, but it was nowhere near the older models. 

39:45
Believe that we still have touch, but it was nowhere near the older models. And I think that the automation and where things are going to go is going to be to such a degree that, in some sense, it's going to be too easy for the end users to make technology decisions without involving the MSP, and that's my concern for our industry, that's my concern for our community. So, with that being said, what do we do? We have to go back to that high touch model and start reestablishing why we have been, always have been the technology expert for your business. We just have to sort of re-approach it and reintroduce that notion with our clients, and there are some things that we are doing to help support the community from a sales perspective, as well as preparing them for opportunities around co-pilot. So, yeah, I think this is probably one of the biggest opportunities again for our industry and I know they're going to step up. 

40:48 - Uncle Marv (Host)
So this discussion is all about that. Let me kind of because you're kind of hinting this way and hinting that way so let me just flat out ask you are we talking about a new program, a new platform, a new marketplace? Can you? Can you or you just say you know it's coming, but you can't announce it? Oh no, new platform, a new marketplace, can you? Can you, are, you, are you just say you know it's coming, but you can't announce it? 

41:07 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
Oh, no, no, no, no. We made the announcement in Costa Mesa. The whole point of the matter is and I really honestly don't even want to use this term anymore but tech, ai, okay, I, it Technology is advancing at such a faster clip that if you start looking at what a lot smarter people way smarter than me are projecting that curve of technology I'm going to try to get this on video that curve of technology, okay, that slope is going to be fairly steep. And then if you look at that curve and all the things that have already come true, the time that we transitioned from bar to MSP, that slope was manageable. So it took roughly about two years for our industry to figure out and get their feet under them about pricing strategies, how to sell it, how to manage it, what the stack may look like initially. That took about two years. 

42:11
The issue is, as the technology is introduced to our industry and to our clients at a faster clip, that slope is going to become very steep and that means that if we don't start moving quickly in that direction, we're not going to be able to hold up with as much change as that is taking place. And so you know I threw some cryptic messages out on social media and I got some little flack for it. What's Jerry talking about? And this, and that I'm just telling you, as a businessperson, that our industry is going to get disrupted, and if we don't prepare for it, then we're not prepared. And this is already happening with other major industries already. And so the evidence is there, the facts are there, and my son, to give you a great example, my son goes to UCF great school for computer science. I flat out told him do not become a programmer, absolutely do not become a programmer, because the guy from NVIDIA just said, like last week, and then somebody just introduced something that they're going to create a coding language that is like English. So, listen, this is a reality. And I love technology, don't get me wrong, I love it. I just want to make sure that we as an industry are taking, I guess, full advantage of the relationship we have with our clients and not letting them make decisions without us. And I'll leave one point, and I'll let you leave one point here, Marvin. 

43:53
When shadow IT became a big thing, okay, everyone in our industry asked the wrong questions. Everyone was asking oh, how can we manage this, how can we do this? How can we best manage this? That's the wrong question. The question was we should have asked was why is it happening? And it's happening because that relationship wasn't there. You had clients that were making technology decisions without you. That's what it came down to. So let's be real. Bottom line is, the more we let the client make technology decisions, the more we don't have that tighter bond with them to sell them things or to service them or to help their company grow, and so you can say, ah, jerry, it doesn't matter, cybersecurity is going to be with us for a while. I get that. That'll be the saving grace for our industry for some time. 

44:52
But Dell already said self-healing computers are coming out this spring. So what do we do? Do we sit back and go hey, listen, covid was great for us. Our revenue has gone up. I'm about to tap out anyways out of this industry. Or do we look ahead and go okay, look, here's a great opportunity. Let's 10 to 20 extra productivity of every client that we have by leveraging these new tools. But to do so we have to talk to the client and get back to basics. So I will get off my soapbox. All right, that's it. 

45:26 - Uncle Marv (Host)
So what you're saying is we're at the curved end of the hockey stick and it's going to shoot up real fast and listen. 

45:32
We know that that's happening. We knew that it was coming. Amazon alone has made it difficult, because customers can go out and get stuff without talking to us. Whether it's AI, whether it's the fact that other companies are going to make it easy by saying look, if your IT provider isn't doing this, we can. That's what we've got to face. So, as a managed service provider, no matter how big or how small you are, you're right. We've got to pay attention, and with that, that was our soapbox moment of the show. 

46:09 - Jerry Koutavas (Guest)
Sorry, it's meant to be said, that's okay. 

46:13 - Uncle Marv (Host)
That's fine, let's do this. Let's see how we went longer than we thought, but that's okay. Let me go back and do a final check with Sue, and Sue can you just kind of, I guess, wrap up if there was something that you wanted to drive home, besides the fact that if you're not an ASCII, you need to look at ASCII, what else can you say, for your company really has stood out because of ASCII your company really has stood out because of ASCII. 

46:47 - Sue Trahant (Guest)
Well, again, there's so many reasons why we love ASCII, but really I believe that they, in the beginning, remember I'm older, so I'm remembering Y2K, so let's go way the way back but they've just always been there for us and with their guidance and all the opportunities that they presented to us, it's really just made us the company we are today. And going back on what you said, jerry, it's up to all of us to have a relationship, whether it be with our vendors, our peer group, our customers. Ultimately all of that is on us. Relationships, whether it be with our vendors, our peer group, our customers, ultimately all of that is on us. And if we don't do a good job, then shame on us, because there's plenty of business out there for everyone. That's how I feel and I'll always be part of ASCII doing it, that's it. 

47:40 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right and, jessie, I know that Jerry has given us a glimpse into the future that we need to pay attention to. From your perspective, what's coming down the road for ASCII in terms of the near future? 

48:03 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
forth. So for us, we're always going to be looking at new technology, new exciting things in the pipeline. You know, a lot of times we have the privilege as ASCII employees to see those exciting and new companies first, before the MSPs realize. So for us, we'll just be continuing to add programs and, you know, vendor relationships with new and exciting companies that are going to really help bring the MSPs to the next level, whether it's you know AI related or anything else. 

48:31
That's really what's in the pipeline for us, so we'll always be just kind of our, you know, ear to the ground listening, and that's kind of where we'll be going. 

48:40 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right. Well, guys, I want to thank each of you for coming on the show and sharing your experience with ASCII. We're going to be doing this a few more times this year, kind of looking back at the 40 years with other members of ASCII and other ASCII staffers, so we'll get to hear more down the road. Jerry, Jessie, sue, thanks a lot. 

49:06 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
Thanks, Marvin, appreciate your time. Appreciate your time. 

49:09 - Uncle Marv (Host)
All right, and for those of you listening, remember I said the links will be in the show notes to everything we discussed here. You can find out more about our guests and just remember that you know. Yeah, we've talked about ASCII being around for 40 years, providing various benefits from preferred pricing, networking opportunities the number that was mentioned, 1,400 plus obviously higher than the number you're going to see on the website because they are moving much faster than the website 65 plus programs, 15,000 connections made. I have done a few of those myself when I've reached out and needed boots on the ground. So ASCII is obviously something we should be paying attention to. I'll be talking to them throughout the year, as I mentioned, and hope that you tune in and maybe we'll see you out on the road at one of the ASCII Edge events. I will see Sue; we're going to go have a drink. I'll see Jerry, we're going to go have a drink. I'll see Jerry, we'll have a drink, maybe some cards and Jessie, midnight bowling for you, right? 

50:15 - Jessie Devine (Guest)
You'll see me, I'll be getting a drink with you, for sure All right. 

50:18 - Uncle Marv (Host)
Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for listening. We'll be back with another episode soon, and until then, Holla!